Imperialism is a higher stage of capitalism in which the means of production of the country have concentrated into the hands of a few, there's no longer competition in the main private sectors of the economy, and the economy has financialized. Capitalists don't live off the profits of the companies anymore, they live off stock trading and investment funds. The high rate of development of local industry leads capitalist firms to exporting their capital to other countries to expand the markets and the production and to abuse the cheap resources and labor elsewhere. Please explain me how this situation doesn't describe Russia or most NATO countries.
Imperialist war is when a war is fought between countries in the stage of imperialism for imperialist reasons.
Are we going to pretend that imperialism only exists in this specific and convenient definition that you make and did not exist before industrialization and the financialization of economies, or that the Russian entry into this war was for "imperialist" reasons or that Russia is exploiting its new territories (which have always had indigenous Russians as the main population base) in the model (of "expanding markets and abusing cheap resources/labor") you describe, rather than painstakingly taking effort to integrate and develop the regions that Ukraine and the collective west has been shelling for a decade?
There is a clear difference between the imperialist warmongering of the western nations, and this war of defense by Russia, capitalist as it may be- a war to defend their country from being further encircled, threatened, and carved up, and to protect the legitimate human rights of the indigenous Russo-Ukranians. The entire majority of the world can see it, but somehow you- by the looks of your recent comment history, a Spaniard (white west European, whose imperialist heyday it should be noted fell outside of the definitions of imperialism as you describe it) conveniently do not. I'd recommend taking a look at your own biases, because you're clearly Euro-brained and it's not a good look.
Are we going to pretend that imperialism only exists in this specific and convenient definition
They literally sent me Lenin, I'm abiding to Lenin's definition of imperialism on "Imperialism: higher stage of capitalism".
painstakingly taking effort to integrate and develop the regions that Ukraine and the collective west has been shelling for a decade?
Forgive me for not believing Putin's intent here is humanitarian development of western-liberalism-affected regions with Russian majority.
There is a clear difference between the imperialist warmongering of the western nations, and this war of defense by Russia
Yeah, NATO is objectively worse, there's no arguing that
a war to defend their country from being further encircled, threatened, and carved up
All of that is true. The former Warsaw pact has seen color revolution after color revolution (what a coincidence that similar protests like the Occupy Movement in the US or the 15M in Spain don't produce any results). That doesn't invalidate anything of what I'm saying, it's still warmongering between advanced capitalist states for geopolitical control. Forgive me for not praising Steven fucking Seagal for wanting to give his life for the well-being of Russian oligarchic companies.
and to protect the legitimate human rights of the indigenous Russo-Ukranians
Famous defender of human rights capitalist Russia, not at all constantly passing laws against minorities (whether women, queer, or national minorities like central-asians), and on a downwards spiral towards fascism (sadly like the rest of Europe).
Your last paragraph is a tirade calling me basically an eurolib and linking me to the Spanish empire (like, seriously, wtf) for not wanting to defend the modern Russian capitalist regime. Believe it or not, there are people on the left who don't critically support Russia for being 90% Hitler defending itself from the 99% Hitler that NATO is.
I saw Russian bombs fall from the window of my own house
I hope to God that they win so that the collective West gets socked in the face,I couldn't give less of a fuck about if they're imperialist or not
Maybe NATO exists in the background to you people in the heart of the empire,but all we have over here, on the absolute frontier of it, it's warnings that stray drones might fall on us, jets whizzing overhead and the quiet nighttime concert of booms and the brief flashes of explosions that the poor people that just happen to live on the other side of a river have to live with because of the games played by people an ocean away
Russia winning will finally put an end to this atrocity,and I couldn't care less if they're not the USSR
The more this circus goes on,the more people die and the possibility of it coming from the distance to my own house directly increases
Fuck the architects of this atrocity and fuck the puppets that rule our nations who treat us people on the border like acceptable losses
I agree that the most realistic scenario ending the war soon is the victory of Russia, and so for the sake of all the people on both sides who suffer from the war it's what I desire right now. A peace negotiation mediated by China would also be desirable but sadly it doesn't seem like Kiev is willing to do that.
Alright,but why not offer critical support to Russia then? As much as I should hate them,I find myself hating the nations that caused this instead. I don't like Putin,I don't like the Russian Orthodox church,I don't like the Russian Federation as it currently is,but they would be a great improvement over literal Nazi rule by Ukraine.
If I had to pick over reactionary capitalism that is somewhat opposed to Western capitalism and literal Nazi battalion backed NATO puppet regimes,I will always pick the first option, regardless of how much I disagree with them.
I wasn't exactly addressing that, because I don't really have a position on it
If someone wants to throw their life away in this conflict,at least it would be for the less bad side
My concern was mostly with how you said that Russia is 90% Hitler to NATO's 99%
Using this abstract measurement,I would say that that is the case only internally
On foreign policy they're not even comparable to the evil that NATO unleashes on a daily basis
Eastern Europe has a history with Russian Imperialism, and many wounds still remain open from the time of Tzarist Russia,that couldn't be mended by the Warsaw Pact, and being pro Russia will never be a popular opinion here,but personally,I can say that even if Russia would want to create a new sphere of influence around the area,it would be a more palatable alternative to NATO
I'm not a Z poster by any stretch of the word,but I can see the writing on the wall
Either we remain under the US yoke and we march to our doom,or we trade it for a Russian one and maybe maintain some level of agency. This is how it's always been in this part of the world,see sawing between empires,and with one waxing,it would be a smarter thing to start gravitating towards the closer one that isn't exactly all that powerful but represents the only conceivable opposition in the area
Volunteering to support a nation resisting imperialism, and fighting to defend a nation from literal Nazis (not neo-Nazis even, OG Nazis) being armed and used by the greater worldwide imperialist system of NATO and the collective west so as to further their hegemony is "not based?"
Didn't know we had Ukrainian comrades here. Sorry for what my country has imposed on your people. Hope this war and the terror it brings comes to an end soon. Stay safe comrade o7
Going by this logic, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq and many many other Global South countries all deserve to be victims of imperialism because they are all capitalist countries and not nearly as progressive as the Western countries who have had several decades of prosperity and allowed to develop in peace without being threatened by foreign powers.
Or is it that only countries that cannot fight back against the empire “deserve” critical support because they are no threat to the imperial core itself?
If you really want to know how fucked Russia was by imperialism, look no further than the Shock Therapy in the 1990s. The economic and societal devastation isn’t something that you can recover in a short few decades. You cannot name a single country that has ever recovered from neoliberal shock doctrine over the past 50 years. Millions of excess death in Russia ever since the 1990s, leading to a steady pace of population decline that it has no hope of recovering. No wonder Russia is extremely concerned about being surrounded by a NATO-backed Ukraine and NATO itself that is infested by descendants of the Nazis after the war.
The Ukraine war really is a litmus test for Western leftists. The stark contrast between how socialists and communists in Western countries perceive the Russia-Ukraine war versus the rest of the Global South really paints a striking picture of how many Western left either has no understanding of Lenin’s imperialism, or choose to interpret in their own ways that conveniently suits the neo-colonial agenda of Western imperialism extracting surplus values from the Global South.
Thank you for your good-faith comment, and for your insight.
I don't share your analysis of Russia's reaction to NATO as a consequence of neoliberal shock therapy, because modern Russia isn't a regime born from opposition to the shock therapy, but from the elements that became rich as a consequence. The modern Russian elites that direct Russia's policy are those who profited directly from the neoliberal shock therapy. If they now oppose NATO, I'd argue it's because, somehow, during the hurried process of privatization of the economy, the west allowed local, non-NATO elites to rise in the country from the preexisting black markets and capitalist subversive elements in the late USSR. Russian capital mostly being in Russia and in Russian oligarch hands, basically implies that their interests are in competition with those of NATO.
Your last point about the contrast between socialists in western countries vs socialists in the global south perceiving the Russia-Ukraine war differently makes me think, so I thank you for that, and if you can point me towards any article on the topic, I'd be glad to read it. Thanks again for your comment
This is not the correct assessment, unfortunately. As Lenin laid out clearly in Imperialism: the Highest Stage of Capitalism, imperialist wars are qualitatively different from wars of the previous eras in that they are fundamentally rooted in the expansion of finance capital.
We no longer live in Lenin’s time, when finance capital was still largely subservient to industrial capital before the rentier class launched their own counter-revolution after WWI against industrial capital. The post-Bretton Woods world turned the US empire into a fully financialized empire that leverages its now fiat currency to extract surplus values from the rest of the Global South. Michael Hudson described this new form of imperialism as “Super imperialism” in his book of the same name in 1972.
Russia cannot be imperialist simply because their financial capital is far too weak to even be a player in the game. Russian oligarchs all stored their wealth in dollars and euros, lived lavishly and owned assets overseas in Western countries - the result of the Ukraine war was the sanctions against Russian oligarchs and confiscation of all their assets overnight.
Why would the Russian oligarchs launch a war against NATO and have their assets confiscated almost immediately? The anti-West “nationalist” capitalist in Russia is simply far too weak to play a major role. This is why the Russian state had to practically take over the economy themselves since 2022 and utilized the power of its fiscal policy to stimulate domestic economy under heavy sanctions.
Who are the imperialists then? It is between US and the EU - the two major financial blocs that are competing for domination through their respective currencies: the dollar and the euro. The war in Ukraine is an inter-imperialist war between the US and the EU and, as it has now become clear, the defeat and the end of the EU economic prosperity and the eurozone financial bloc. Russia and Ukraine are the sacrificial pawns in this game.
In terms of Russia, it is more helpful to think of what is happening in Russia today as a confrontation between industrial capital and finance capital, with the Cabinets of Minister (the state representing industrial capital) opposing the far-reaching influence of the central bank (representing finance capital). This is a thesis that Hudson had proposed and it paints the US-China conflict as exactly in this relation: with the US representing finance capital that sought to defeat China representing industrial capital. Only the latter can create the conditions that will lead to socialism. This is an ideological clash where the contradictions have been intensified in recent years, and it has to be resolved somehow… most likely through war.
As Lenin had observed a hundred years prior in Imperialism:
Thanks to her colonies, Great Britain has increased the length of “her” railways by 100,000 kilometres, four times as much as Germany. And yet, it is well known that the development of productive forces in Germany, and especially the development of the coal and iron industries, has been incomparably more rapid during this period than in Britain—not to speak of France and Russia. In 1892, Germany produced 4,900,000 tons of pig-iron and Great Britain produced 6,800,000 tons; in 1912, Germany produced 17,600,000 tons and Great Britain, 9,000,000 tons. Germany, therefore, had an overwhelming superiority over Britain in this respect. The question is: what means other than war could there be under capitalism to overcome the disparity between the development of productive forces and the accumulation of capital on the one side, and the division of colonies and spheres of influence for finance capital on the other?
They literally sent me Lenin, I'm abiding to Lenin's definition of imperialism on "Imperialism: higher stage of capitalism".
And Russia is in this war to "expand its markets and abuse cheap resources/labor" how? Funnily enough, NATO is the one doing that to Ukraine as we speak, and before their sanctions, this is what Europe and the west at large was doing to Russia.
Forgive me for not believing Putin's intent here is humanitarian development of western-liberalism-affected regions with Russian majority.
"Forgive me for not believing (insert non-western state/leader resisting western aggression here)'s intent is humanitarian development or any such high ideals, they're no saint." That's not the point, I think the sensible analysis would show Putin (being a lib and still having wished to be a comprador then) didn't want this war in the first place. All that said, what I described is what they are engaging in, and you can theorize about the intent (which is surely not just "charity") but the material reality can't be denied.
Famous defender of human rights capitalist Russia, not at all constantly passing laws against minorities (whether women, queer, or national minorities like central-asians), and on a downwards spiral towards fascism
Yes, Russia has its issues with these things (most places do, though Russia is going in the wrong direction with much of it to say the least). Good for you for understanding that. And so surely because Russia is so evil, they also love it when their ethnic kin are getting bombed and pogromed, when their language and religion are suppressed by Ukrainian ethno-nationalists who are being used by the west as a dagger at the belly of Russia.
Your last paragraph is a tirade calling me basically an eurolib and linking me to the Spanish empire (like, seriously, wtf) for not wanting to defend the modern Russian capitalist regime.
If you feel called out by it, then maybe you should be lol. My point was less to link you to the empire (though it surely is interesting, that you Euros and the white west in general seem so eager to offload your imperial guilt onto others through whataboutism) than it was to call you a Eurolib, though- which yes, I do think you are.
Russia has many, many issues (as all states do), and it is an explicitly capitalist, by-and-large reactionary state. But anyone shitting on it (even if they can recognize NATO is objectively worse) by painting it as "imperialist" and comparing it as akin to the west ("90% vs 99% Hitler") is failing to understand its role, both in the current Ukranian conflict and in the broader world economy, which is decidedly not imperialist, and in fact (though they would no doubt much rather have been welcomed into the imperialist fold- Putin himself did try to join NATO after all) anti-imperialist by necessity of survival.
And yes, I think it's a particularly lib thing to want to stand against, or wash your hands of the matter by calling it a "inter-imperialist conflict," as such. If you're only looking to support saints and paragons of virtue (not that Russia is anywhere close to that) you'll find yourself with a very small pool of support or solidarity, though I suppose your Euro conscience will feel better and self-righteous for it. You yourself can recognize that Russia's struggle is if anything, anti-imperialist- it is literally in defense of its nation, as well as (coincidentally or otherwise- more coincidentally than not) the rights of the ethnic Russo-Ukranians, etc from western imperialism. But if you want to sit on the sidelines and "both sides" it, continue being a Eurolib by all means.
And Russia is in this war to "expand its markets and abuse cheap resources/labor" how?
It's not currently doing so because it doesn't have the power to do so. The economic and political system that Russia defends is fundamentally identical to that of the NATO block, and it would lead to the same imperialism in other countries if Russia had the upper hand in geopolitics. The same can't be said of, for example, China, or the former USSR. I will support those two countries in their struggles against US imperialism, I won't defend Russia because the result if it wins will be the same but on the other side of the Pacific Ocean.
I think the sensible analysis would show Putin (being a lib and still having wished to be a comprador then) didn't want this war in the first place
Obviously. The point is that Russia is forced to it both by the NATO block, and by the economic system it espouses. It's the same as a bigger, more powerful company, forcing a smaller competing company into harsh competition. The smaller one clearly loses from it, but it's the dynamic of the system and that doesn't make me want to defend the smaller one or to give any resources to it.
The only way I can understand defense of the Russian government as it is now, is to claim that a multipolar imperialist world is better than a unipolar imperialist world with the NATO block leading. If that's your point, I partially agree, but from there to saying "actually becoming a soldier in Russia is based", there's a huge jump. Btw, I suppose that the talks for negotiation of peace that China is proposing are equally eurolib as I am?
If you're only looking to support saints and paragons of virtue (not that Russia is anywhere close to that) you'll find yourself with a very small pool of support or solidarity
Yes, that's sadly been the tendency of the state of affairs since the fall of the USSR. I wish there were plenty more communist countries in the world right now. What's your point, that the lack of communist allies means I need to lend my support to 90% Hitler?
Crazy that you looked for my nationality on other comments on my post history just to have a leg to stand on to call me a "eurolib" or to doubt my feelings towards the Spanish Empire tbh. If I were American you'd be calling me a US imperialist, because at the end of the day you're not looking for a discussion in the safe space that Hexbear is supposed to be, you're just looking to score some extra points being a debatelord.
The economic and political system that Russia defends is fundamentally identical to that of the NATO block, and it would lead to the same imperialism in other countries if Russia had the upper hand in geopolitics.
And yet it doesn't, and it is actively working against the destruction of the present world imperialist order of the west because it has recognized its common cause- with AES nations, but also with an overwhelming number of capitalist nations of all stripes across the global south (with which it is among the leading actors in creating a system of multipolarity and win-win cooperation whereby the highest form of capital, imperialism, will be truly and utterly defunct). Funny isn't that- is it really so "fundamentally identical," or is that just easier to believe rather than realizing that imperialism is a devil in and of itself in its own right (evolved from and the highest form of capital, but also clinging on to and threatening the world as the system of capital it built around itself crumbles and abandons it)?
Btw, I suppose that the talks for negotiation of peace that China is proposing are equally eurolib as I am?
China and the other AES states (and the overwhelming majority of the global south, or even the non-white western world) aren't going around playing the "both sides" card, they understand exactly what this is and what the necessary stance is. That they are trying to present options for peace doesn't change that.
What's your point, that the lack of communist allies means I need to lend my support to 90% Hitler?
Among many things, my point is that your false equation is disgusting and hideous, to the extent that I can only assume it fills a certain need within the white western psyche to be able to project all their nations' collective crimes of imperialism on others. Putin is a shitlib, but he isn't 90% Hitler or even 25-50% comparable to Klanmala, Genocide Joe, Genocide Drumpf, or the leaders of any western regime- he is actively working against the imperialist world order (out of self-preservation) and actively working in cooperation with the rest of humanity specifically to break free from the global western system of debt enslavement, resource theft, and worldwide destabilization and forever wars. And to describe the resistance of a nation from imperialism (as you can recognize, to your credit) as the resistance of "90% Hitler from 99% Hitler" is hideous and characteristically European and liberal (Eurolib). Was the conflict between the Aztecs and the conquistadors a fight between "90% Hitler and 99% Hitler?" What about the resistance of Ethiopia, of Qing China, of Nasser's Egypt or of the ROC (and the united second front) against the Japanese? Are Hamas, Iran, or the other factions of the resistance "90% Hitler up against the 99% Hitler" of the NATO-Zionist imperialist world order?
Rofl, communists who don't give critical support to modern Russia are Nazis, gotcha mate. And a Spanish empire enjoyer too, according to the comment I replied to. Fucking delirious, I tells ya
"Neither Moscow nor Kiev" is not a coherent position in a conflict, and as long as you are paying your spanish taxes, is functionally equivalent to Adam Something paying to have his channel shouted out on a 155mm shell meant for donbass children.
We don't accept "neither washington nor beijing" here; so I'm having a really hard time understanding how "neither moscow nor kiev" got as much traction as it did here tbh
Lack of a party line and the occasional bout of liberal brainworms are to be expected given that this is a english language leftist shitposting site and not a serious org.
How on Earth are you comparing the Beijing government and economic system to the Moscow one? They have nothing in common other than being geopolitical enemies of the USA.
"You claim to be a communist yet you participate in the system you've been forced to live in. I am very smart"
Being primarily anti-nato, especially towards the general public, is compatible with criticism of the contemporary russian government.
I take it for granted you actively donate money to the Russian military for them to free the Russo-Ukrainians in Donbas, or that you're volunteering for the chance of warring in Ukraine, since support to Russia's military operation is the morally correct stance and so much as paying taxes in the west is equivalent with supporting Azov?
"Imperialism is when you invade a country next to you."
Imperialism is a higher stage of capitalism in which the means of production of the country have concentrated into the hands of a few, there's no longer competition in the main private sectors of the economy, and the economy has financialized. Capitalists don't live off the profits of the companies anymore, they live off stock trading and investment funds. The high rate of development of local industry leads capitalist firms to exporting their capital to other countries to expand the markets and the production and to abuse the cheap resources and labor elsewhere. Please explain me how this situation doesn't describe Russia or most NATO countries.
Imperialist war is when a war is fought between countries in the stage of imperialism for imperialist reasons.
Are we going to pretend that imperialism only exists in this specific and convenient definition that you make and did not exist before industrialization and the financialization of economies, or that the Russian entry into this war was for "imperialist" reasons or that Russia is exploiting its new territories (which have always had indigenous Russians as the main population base) in the model (of "expanding markets and abusing cheap resources/labor") you describe, rather than painstakingly taking effort to integrate and develop the regions that Ukraine and the collective west has been shelling for a decade?
There is a clear difference between the imperialist warmongering of the western nations, and this war of defense by Russia, capitalist as it may be- a war to defend their country from being further encircled, threatened, and carved up, and to protect the legitimate human rights of the indigenous Russo-Ukranians. The entire majority of the world can see it, but somehow you- by the looks of your recent comment history, a Spaniard (white west European, whose imperialist heyday it should be noted fell outside of the definitions of imperialism as you describe it) conveniently do not. I'd recommend taking a look at your own biases, because you're clearly Euro-brained and it's not a good look.
They literally sent me Lenin, I'm abiding to Lenin's definition of imperialism on "Imperialism: higher stage of capitalism".
Forgive me for not believing Putin's intent here is humanitarian development of western-liberalism-affected regions with Russian majority.
Yeah, NATO is objectively worse, there's no arguing that
All of that is true. The former Warsaw pact has seen color revolution after color revolution (what a coincidence that similar protests like the Occupy Movement in the US or the 15M in Spain don't produce any results). That doesn't invalidate anything of what I'm saying, it's still warmongering between advanced capitalist states for geopolitical control. Forgive me for not praising Steven fucking Seagal for wanting to give his life for the well-being of Russian oligarchic companies.
Famous defender of human rights capitalist Russia, not at all constantly passing laws against minorities (whether women, queer, or national minorities like central-asians), and on a downwards spiral towards fascism (sadly like the rest of Europe).
Your last paragraph is a tirade calling me basically an eurolib and linking me to the Spanish empire (like, seriously, wtf) for not wanting to defend the modern Russian capitalist regime. Believe it or not, there are people on the left who don't critically support Russia for being 90% Hitler defending itself from the 99% Hitler that NATO is.
I saw Russian bombs fall from the window of my own house
I hope to God that they win so that the collective West gets socked in the face,I couldn't give less of a fuck about if they're imperialist or not
Maybe NATO exists in the background to you people in the heart of the empire,but all we have over here, on the absolute frontier of it, it's warnings that stray drones might fall on us, jets whizzing overhead and the quiet nighttime concert of booms and the brief flashes of explosions that the poor people that just happen to live on the other side of a river have to live with because of the games played by people an ocean away
Russia winning will finally put an end to this atrocity,and I couldn't care less if they're not the USSR
The more this circus goes on,the more people die and the possibility of it coming from the distance to my own house directly increases
Fuck the architects of this atrocity and fuck the puppets that rule our nations who treat us people on the border like acceptable losses
Proof attached
I took this photo one year ago,when the first drone attacks began,with my own phone,from my balcony
(PS:I cropped it so that it shouldn't count for self dox, please tell me if that is enough or I should delete it)
If you don't wanna risk doxxing, I'd delete. You don't need to prove anything, this is a safe space and I believe you
In all honesty I just wanted to post the photo
Not everyday you get a shot like this,even if it was really scary when it happened
I agree that the most realistic scenario ending the war soon is the victory of Russia, and so for the sake of all the people on both sides who suffer from the war it's what I desire right now. A peace negotiation mediated by China would also be desirable but sadly it doesn't seem like Kiev is willing to do that.
Alright,but why not offer critical support to Russia then? As much as I should hate them,I find myself hating the nations that caused this instead. I don't like Putin,I don't like the Russian Orthodox church,I don't like the Russian Federation as it currently is,but they would be a great improvement over literal Nazi rule by Ukraine.
If I had to pick over reactionary capitalism that is somewhat opposed to Western capitalism and literal Nazi battalion backed NATO puppet regimes,I will always pick the first option, regardless of how much I disagree with them.
Offering critical support is one thing, saying that "volunteering to the Russian army is based" is quite a bit beyond that imo
I wasn't exactly addressing that, because I don't really have a position on it
If someone wants to throw their life away in this conflict,at least it would be for the less bad side
My concern was mostly with how you said that Russia is 90% Hitler to NATO's 99%
Using this abstract measurement,I would say that that is the case only internally
On foreign policy they're not even comparable to the evil that NATO unleashes on a daily basis
Eastern Europe has a history with Russian Imperialism, and many wounds still remain open from the time of Tzarist Russia,that couldn't be mended by the Warsaw Pact, and being pro Russia will never be a popular opinion here,but personally,I can say that even if Russia would want to create a new sphere of influence around the area,it would be a more palatable alternative to NATO
I'm not a Z poster by any stretch of the word,but I can see the writing on the wall
Either we remain under the US yoke and we march to our doom,or we trade it for a Russian one and maybe maintain some level of agency. This is how it's always been in this part of the world,see sawing between empires,and with one waxing,it would be a smarter thing to start gravitating towards the closer one that isn't exactly all that powerful but represents the only conceivable opposition in the area
Volunteering to support a nation resisting imperialism, and fighting to defend a nation from literal Nazis (not neo-Nazis even, OG Nazis) being armed and used by the greater worldwide imperialist system of NATO and the collective west so as to further their hegemony is "not based?"
because NATO won't let them! They've even said it!
Didn't know we had Ukrainian comrades here. Sorry for what my country has imposed on your people. Hope this war and the terror it brings comes to an end soon. Stay safe comrade o7
I'm Romanian,but thanks,lol
Whoops, explains the username lol my b
Going by this logic, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq and many many other Global South countries all deserve to be victims of imperialism because they are all capitalist countries and not nearly as progressive as the Western countries who have had several decades of prosperity and allowed to develop in peace without being threatened by foreign powers.
Or is it that only countries that cannot fight back against the empire “deserve” critical support because they are no threat to the imperial core itself?
If you really want to know how fucked Russia was by imperialism, look no further than the Shock Therapy in the 1990s. The economic and societal devastation isn’t something that you can recover in a short few decades. You cannot name a single country that has ever recovered from neoliberal shock doctrine over the past 50 years. Millions of excess death in Russia ever since the 1990s, leading to a steady pace of population decline that it has no hope of recovering. No wonder Russia is extremely concerned about being surrounded by a NATO-backed Ukraine and NATO itself that is infested by descendants of the Nazis after the war.
The Ukraine war really is a litmus test for Western leftists. The stark contrast between how socialists and communists in Western countries perceive the Russia-Ukraine war versus the rest of the Global South really paints a striking picture of how many Western left either has no understanding of Lenin’s imperialism, or choose to interpret in their own ways that conveniently suits the neo-colonial agenda of Western imperialism extracting surplus values from the Global South.
Heartwarming: once /c/news badposter now fully understands the core of international geopolitics
Hexbear has many good teachers I guess
Thank you for your good-faith comment, and for your insight.
I don't share your analysis of Russia's reaction to NATO as a consequence of neoliberal shock therapy, because modern Russia isn't a regime born from opposition to the shock therapy, but from the elements that became rich as a consequence. The modern Russian elites that direct Russia's policy are those who profited directly from the neoliberal shock therapy. If they now oppose NATO, I'd argue it's because, somehow, during the hurried process of privatization of the economy, the west allowed local, non-NATO elites to rise in the country from the preexisting black markets and capitalist subversive elements in the late USSR. Russian capital mostly being in Russia and in Russian oligarch hands, basically implies that their interests are in competition with those of NATO.
Your last point about the contrast between socialists in western countries vs socialists in the global south perceiving the Russia-Ukraine war differently makes me think, so I thank you for that, and if you can point me towards any article on the topic, I'd be glad to read it. Thanks again for your comment
This is not the correct assessment, unfortunately. As Lenin laid out clearly in Imperialism: the Highest Stage of Capitalism, imperialist wars are qualitatively different from wars of the previous eras in that they are fundamentally rooted in the expansion of finance capital.
We no longer live in Lenin’s time, when finance capital was still largely subservient to industrial capital before the rentier class launched their own counter-revolution after WWI against industrial capital. The post-Bretton Woods world turned the US empire into a fully financialized empire that leverages its now fiat currency to extract surplus values from the rest of the Global South. Michael Hudson described this new form of imperialism as “Super imperialism” in his book of the same name in 1972.
Russia cannot be imperialist simply because their financial capital is far too weak to even be a player in the game. Russian oligarchs all stored their wealth in dollars and euros, lived lavishly and owned assets overseas in Western countries - the result of the Ukraine war was the sanctions against Russian oligarchs and confiscation of all their assets overnight.
Why would the Russian oligarchs launch a war against NATO and have their assets confiscated almost immediately? The anti-West “nationalist” capitalist in Russia is simply far too weak to play a major role. This is why the Russian state had to practically take over the economy themselves since 2022 and utilized the power of its fiscal policy to stimulate domestic economy under heavy sanctions.
Who are the imperialists then? It is between US and the EU - the two major financial blocs that are competing for domination through their respective currencies: the dollar and the euro. The war in Ukraine is an inter-imperialist war between the US and the EU and, as it has now become clear, the defeat and the end of the EU economic prosperity and the eurozone financial bloc. Russia and Ukraine are the sacrificial pawns in this game.
In terms of Russia, it is more helpful to think of what is happening in Russia today as a confrontation between industrial capital and finance capital, with the Cabinets of Minister (the state representing industrial capital) opposing the far-reaching influence of the central bank (representing finance capital). This is a thesis that Hudson had proposed and it paints the US-China conflict as exactly in this relation: with the US representing finance capital that sought to defeat China representing industrial capital. Only the latter can create the conditions that will lead to socialism. This is an ideological clash where the contradictions have been intensified in recent years, and it has to be resolved somehow… most likely through war.
As Lenin had observed a hundred years prior in Imperialism:
And Russia is in this war to "expand its markets and abuse cheap resources/labor" how? Funnily enough, NATO is the one doing that to Ukraine as we speak, and before their sanctions, this is what Europe and the west at large was doing to Russia.
"Forgive me for not believing (insert non-western state/leader resisting western aggression here)'s intent is humanitarian development or any such high ideals, they're no saint." That's not the point, I think the sensible analysis would show Putin (being a lib and still having wished to be a comprador then) didn't want this war in the first place. All that said, what I described is what they are engaging in, and you can theorize about the intent (which is surely not just "charity") but the material reality can't be denied.
Yes, Russia has its issues with these things (most places do, though Russia is going in the wrong direction with much of it to say the least). Good for you for understanding that. And so surely because Russia is so evil, they also love it when their ethnic kin are getting bombed and pogromed, when their language and religion are suppressed by Ukrainian ethno-nationalists who are being used by the west as a dagger at the belly of Russia.
If you feel called out by it, then maybe you should be lol. My point was less to link you to the empire (though it surely is interesting, that you Euros and the white west in general seem so eager to offload your imperial guilt onto others through whataboutism) than it was to call you a Eurolib, though- which yes, I do think you are.
Russia has many, many issues (as all states do), and it is an explicitly capitalist, by-and-large reactionary state. But anyone shitting on it (even if they can recognize NATO is objectively worse) by painting it as "imperialist" and comparing it as akin to the west ("90% vs 99% Hitler") is failing to understand its role, both in the current Ukranian conflict and in the broader world economy, which is decidedly not imperialist, and in fact (though they would no doubt much rather have been welcomed into the imperialist fold- Putin himself did try to join NATO after all) anti-imperialist by necessity of survival.
And yes, I think it's a particularly lib thing to want to stand against, or wash your hands of the matter by calling it a "inter-imperialist conflict," as such. If you're only looking to support saints and paragons of virtue (not that Russia is anywhere close to that) you'll find yourself with a very small pool of support or solidarity, though I suppose your Euro conscience will feel better and self-righteous for it. You yourself can recognize that Russia's struggle is if anything, anti-imperialist- it is literally in defense of its nation, as well as (coincidentally or otherwise- more coincidentally than not) the rights of the ethnic Russo-Ukranians, etc from western imperialism. But if you want to sit on the sidelines and "both sides" it, continue being a Eurolib by all means.
It's not currently doing so because it doesn't have the power to do so. The economic and political system that Russia defends is fundamentally identical to that of the NATO block, and it would lead to the same imperialism in other countries if Russia had the upper hand in geopolitics. The same can't be said of, for example, China, or the former USSR. I will support those two countries in their struggles against US imperialism, I won't defend Russia because the result if it wins will be the same but on the other side of the Pacific Ocean.
Obviously. The point is that Russia is forced to it both by the NATO block, and by the economic system it espouses. It's the same as a bigger, more powerful company, forcing a smaller competing company into harsh competition. The smaller one clearly loses from it, but it's the dynamic of the system and that doesn't make me want to defend the smaller one or to give any resources to it.
The only way I can understand defense of the Russian government as it is now, is to claim that a multipolar imperialist world is better than a unipolar imperialist world with the NATO block leading. If that's your point, I partially agree, but from there to saying "actually becoming a soldier in Russia is based", there's a huge jump. Btw, I suppose that the talks for negotiation of peace that China is proposing are equally eurolib as I am?
Yes, that's sadly been the tendency of the state of affairs since the fall of the USSR. I wish there were plenty more communist countries in the world right now. What's your point, that the lack of communist allies means I need to lend my support to 90% Hitler?
Crazy that you looked for my nationality on other comments on my post history just to have a leg to stand on to call me a "eurolib" or to doubt my feelings towards the Spanish Empire tbh. If I were American you'd be calling me a US imperialist, because at the end of the day you're not looking for a discussion in the safe space that Hexbear is supposed to be, you're just looking to score some extra points being a debatelord.
And yet it doesn't, and it is actively working against the destruction of the present world imperialist order of the west because it has recognized its common cause- with AES nations, but also with an overwhelming number of capitalist nations of all stripes across the global south (with which it is among the leading actors in creating a system of multipolarity and win-win cooperation whereby the highest form of capital, imperialism, will be truly and utterly defunct). Funny isn't that- is it really so "fundamentally identical," or is that just easier to believe rather than realizing that imperialism is a devil in and of itself in its own right (evolved from and the highest form of capital, but also clinging on to and threatening the world as the system of capital it built around itself crumbles and abandons it)?
China and the other AES states (and the overwhelming majority of the global south, or even the non-white western world) aren't going around playing the "both sides" card, they understand exactly what this is and what the necessary stance is. That they are trying to present options for peace doesn't change that.
Among many things, my point is that your false equation is disgusting and hideous, to the extent that I can only assume it fills a certain need within the white western psyche to be able to project all their nations' collective crimes of imperialism on others. Putin is a shitlib, but he isn't 90% Hitler or even 25-50% comparable to Klanmala, Genocide Joe, Genocide Drumpf, or the leaders of any western regime- he is actively working against the imperialist world order (out of self-preservation) and actively working in cooperation with the rest of humanity specifically to break free from the global western system of debt enslavement, resource theft, and worldwide destabilization and forever wars. And to describe the resistance of a nation from imperialism (as you can recognize, to your credit) as the resistance of "90% Hitler from 99% Hitler" is hideous and characteristically European and liberal (Eurolib). Was the conflict between the Aztecs and the conquistadors a fight between "90% Hitler and 99% Hitler?" What about the resistance of Ethiopia, of Qing China, of Nasser's Egypt or of the ROC (and the united second front) against the Japanese? Are Hamas, Iran, or the other factions of the resistance "90% Hitler up against the 99% Hitler" of the NATO-Zionist imperialist world order?
regions HIGHLY AFFECTED with HIGH EXPLOSIVE western-liberalism
It is your moral imperative to go and sacrifice yourself for the Azov batallion if that's what you genuinely believe.
Rofl, communists who don't give critical support to modern Russia are Nazis, gotcha mate. And a Spanish empire enjoyer too, according to the comment I replied to. Fucking delirious, I tells ya
"Neither Moscow nor Kiev" is not a coherent position in a conflict, and as long as you are paying your spanish taxes, is functionally equivalent to Adam Something paying to have his channel shouted out on a 155mm shell meant for donbass children.
We don't accept "neither washington nor beijing" here; so I'm having a really hard time understanding how "neither moscow nor kiev" got as much traction as it did here tbh
Lack of a party line and the occasional bout of liberal brainworms are to be expected given that this is a english language leftist shitposting site and not a serious org.
How on Earth are you comparing the Beijing government and economic system to the Moscow one? They have nothing in common other than being geopolitical enemies of the USA.
"You claim to be a communist yet you participate in the system you've been forced to live in. I am very smart"
Being primarily anti-nato, especially towards the general public, is compatible with criticism of the contemporary russian government.
I take it for granted you actively donate money to the Russian military for them to free the Russo-Ukrainians in Donbas, or that you're volunteering for the chance of warring in Ukraine, since support to Russia's military operation is the morally correct stance and so much as paying taxes in the west is equivalent with supporting Azov?
going down on federal "sponsor of terrorism" charges so one unit can get an extra magazine is indeed an efficient use of energy.
where did lenin say that territorial expansion is not imperialism if it's with bordering countries?