Hey all.

I know everybody's looking to put the pronoun struggle session behind us and I don't want to reignite it or anything, but now that everything's calmed down a bit I thought it would be a good chance to reexamine it and talk it over a bit.

I was hesitant about the issue from the start because I didn't/don't think that trans people are singled out in listing pronouns on this site specifically, because we don't have profile pics or anything so cis people also have to list pronouns or risk being misgendered. I definitely wouldn't assume anyone on here was trans because they listed pronouns or cis because they didn't, and I don't see why anyone else would think that either, so I didn't understand what the problem was. Imo, since this site's inception, it has never been reasonable to assume that someone is trans just because they have "He/him" listed.

However, a point that multiple posters made in response to that was to talk about the "default assumption" that anyone you encounter on the internet is male, and that women can feel singled out if they're the only ones that have to list pronouns, and I can understand that argument a bit better. I guess because pronouns are typically associated with trans issues, and because it is more like that on other platforms with profile pictures, the struggle session was framed more as a trans issue. But as I said in a couple conversations, I feel like it's more of a women's issue. Trans men are not harmed by the default assumption of masculinity, while it affects women regardless of whether they're trans or cis. Maybe we should've been calling everyone sexist rather than transphobic 🙃

Like I said, I know everyone's eager to put this behind us and wrap it up with a bow, but personally I don't think the site default being "any" rather than blank actually fixes anything in regards to that default assumption. But I don't know what the best way to deal with that issue is. My only thing would be to try to avoid gendered language if you don't know the person's pronouns, if they're listed as any, default to "they" rather than "he." As for setting your pronouns, I don't think anyone should feel pressured, but if you're male and the only reason you don't want to is because people assume you're male anyway, then it'd be cool to set them as "he/him" as a sign that that's something that needs to be said and shouldn't just be assumed (though I'm guessing at this point you probably have anyway).

But more generally, I thought this would be a good time to examine our community in general and ask whether there's anything to be done to make women feel more comfortable here. I think a lot of people here are either male or AMAB, and I think for both groups there's more of an expectation growing up that you're allowed to have strong opinions and political views. The "dirtbag left" aesthetic is probably more appealing to men than to women. So I think to an extent it's acceptable that our demographics skew the way they do, because some of it is due to big societal issues and some of it is part of our identity as a community - if we gave up our Sonic/Luigi Mpreg shitposts, would we still be Chapo?

At the same time, I feel like there's room for improvement on this front. This post is already quite long and I don't want to dominate the conversation - instead, I'd like to open up a space to voice any concerns and to brainstorm if there's anything we can do better as a community to address any latent sexism, make the space more welcoming to women, or otherwise fight the patriarchy.

Thanks for reading, and I hope I haven't stepped on any toes. I love all y'all, and I hope we can work together to make the community the best it can be ❤️

  • fuckhaha [any,none/use name]
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    4 years ago

    I have seen fem-presenting posters post pretty explicitly femmish things here and then everyone in the comments assumes they are a man, so I believe that the general internet issue has carried over to here from our mean father reddit.

    My policy has generally been for years now to entirely avoid gendered language except when dealing with very public figures or responding to someone who has identified themself but I also almost exclusively post very drunk, and use 'man' and 'dude' as punctuation. I don't think it would be effective to jump on people for accidentally saying the wrong thing. Ideally a culture of not assuming gender would be inculcated without public shaming, which doesn't work after all.

    My proposal for influencing our culture is based of what I consider a pretty successful overcoming of this issue on SRS, which many would be surprised to learn was mostly "male" posters. We need to cut off the balls in our hearts. Just as there is a race it is weird to be proud of (white) and a type of worker we are not in solidarity with (cop), there is a gender we should be ashamed to express (cismale). I truly do believe that dudes rock, but to hold that truth in your heart doesn't mean you have to assert your penility online; in fact the very opposite, dudes rock is a private feeling to be shared among your close bros over some IPAs and waving it around in the public square cheapens it. The official position of this community should be (besides ofc the abolition of gender being the ultimate communist goal) that to be male is to be an icky boy, to be wrought of slugs and snails and puppydog tails, that patriarchy is both real and villainous, and that daddy shouldn't have raised his voice so much if he wanted me to call him on his birthday.

    Won't this upset our transmen? Maybe. I have known a dozen or so transmen in my life, and lived with 3. Among them I count the greatest gender-terrorists I have ever met or heard of. It was transmen that taught me to hate patriarchy. Thats not to say that everyone would agree with that.

    Won't this upset our cismen? I would say to them, why don't you just man up huh? If you want to get back into the cool club all you have to do is choose to be gay like I did

    • Awoo [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      This post is a rollercoaster. I haven't seen such a simultaneously woke and yet intentionally bait-filled post since SRS was considered a terrorist force on reddit and had hundreds of daily posters. I miss those days a lot.

      I hope all the archangels are doing well.

        • Awoo [she/her]
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          It was so fucking good. The entirety of reddit was endlessly trying to get it banned. Chapo got the right wingers upset a bit but SRS at its peak was spoken of as if it were literally a terrorist enterprise and there wasn't a reddit user that didn't know what it was. It made white boys froth at the mouth with pure rage. It was condensed ball of pure bait and it fucking worked so so well.

          I don't know why it slowly dwindled, I assume whoever was running the show probably lost time/appetite for it which left it to shrink and slowly die. It was definitely my favourite period of reddit history.

          BENNED

          • hexaflexagonbear [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            My favourite type of comment was when someone was needlessly aggressive, got downvoted, and went "oh looks like SRS is brigading again". In like 2015, when SRS was like 20 people.

    • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      I completely disagree with this comment. I'm really happy that we have c/menby because I think it's good to have a positive masc space. No one should be ashamed of their gender or afraid to express it.

      Won’t this upset our cismen? I would say to them, why don’t you just man up huh? If you want to get back into the cool club all you have to do is choose to be gay like I did

      Literally just reinforcing toxic masculinity to own the libs, what the actual fuck. Expecting cis men to not be offended or man up if someone shames them for a part of who they are that they can't change is toxic af.

      I mean sure, mandatory bimbofication is a fun meme and I love it, but if we're being serious then it is valid to be upset if someone shames you for your gender. The patriarchy often hurts men too, and there's no sense in pushing away allies just because of something about themselves that they can't change. We ought be more open and sympathetic to each other and not be afraid to express how we feel - not this ridiculous "If it bothers you, man up" nonsense.

    • wtypstanaccount04 [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      just man up

      choose to be gay

      That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.