In 100 years (lol) people will say Trump was ‘a product of his times’.
Yeah, while material and social conditions matter, turns out having a fucking Conscience wasn't invented in 1965. Have a look at what this Dominican friar said about the situation in 1542.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Short_Account_of_the_Destruction_of_the_Indies
When you are such an evil bastard you make the priest accompanying you question the existence of a benevolent God
It was a speech by Montesinos during a full high mass attended by the local nobility that converted him from being a shithead slaver.
Basically "What you are doing is so evil you pretty much can't be forgiven for it, it's essentially not having faith in Jesus, so fuck you, you're excommunicated, and you're never getting back in. Go to hell, literally."
I love using this kind of stuff against the "it was a different time" circle-jerk historians.
I think "a product of their society" is a lot more justifiable way to get across the same message.
Like, if someone is born in a small, racist white town with no POC, you can expect that they'll be racist because they've never been confronted with opposing ideals and, I'm sorry, very few people were John Brown.
But more importantly, I think that we use "a product of their time" to accomplish a really dumb purpose. People aren't morally one thing- a lot of very good union people from the US labor movement had some problematic beliefs about women, for example.
all people are products.
of their times, sure.
but mostly products.
:capitalist:
"Product of their times" is shorthand for "accepted the dominant narrative without question." A significantly poorer estimation of the character of people, to be sure, but a fair one.
Like what is that even supposed to mean? We are materialists, we think literally everyone is a product of their time and place. That doesn’t excuse them. That doesn’t make them not fascist pieces of shit at the end of the day.
Because Americans understand 3 kinds of historical people: "Good people," "Confusing People," and "Bad People."
Normal people you never read about in history books were 'products of their times' and could not have recognized their problems. The people who did the most awful shit were usually seen as bad people even by contemporaries.
Absolute legend. I don't know where you found this, but hell yeah.
Absolutely! The best example is the comparison between George Washington and Simon Bolivar. Both of them were born wealthy slave holders. However, one of them didn't do genocide, freed all his slaves who then joined him on the fight against the spaniards. He also gave special concessions to each of the indigenous groups that joined him. Because of his rebellion, the spaniards took all of his possessions. When he died, he was broke and was wearing a borrowed shirt.
So, surprising or not, people knew that genocide was bad in the 1800s!
Historic.ly is good but man they ratio bait a lot. Anyway Christopher Columbus is a fredo.
