Bonkers question. Can't even figure out living on Earth sustainably and you want to talk about doing it without gravity, an atmosphere or an ionosphere?
Not a bonkers question, it's actually totally predictable if you have an accurate read for both the White urge to despoil the frontier, and the depths of techbro narcissism. They just want to be the first to bust their load somewhere new, no matter what it takes, no matter whose resources they have to spend, no matter what they leave behind. Colonizer-assed cracker techbros always leave shit behind.
This is what the space-age (hwhite) colonizer's future looks like: every planet now has ring arrangements of dead satellites, empty fuel pods, blown-apart thrusters, and other assorted human-make space junk. Rings of garbage for all nine, dead vessels (crewed by now, long-dead, pressganged "conscripts" [because "conscript" causes less riots than "undesirable"]) hanging in high planetary orbits like macabre baby mobiles, and a still-smoldering coal where Earth used to be.
I have no fucking respect for it.
Only two things are infinite: the universe and Seppos' ability to bring up race in any convrsation.
As long as there are white people, we have to keep having this talk. At some point they'll realize that white is a caste and hopefully give it up.
If you're an aussie you're no fucking better settler lmfaooooooooooooooooooooo
Westerners try to accept that the rest of the world exists challenge: impossible
Don't you have a democracy you should be overthrowing?
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Don't you have natives of your own to be ceding your land back to, then going the fuck back to Britain afterwards? Settlers are settlers, no matter what white country they illegitimately live in. America, Britain, Australia, France, Spain, Belgium, the Nordics, all of you are exactly the same.
https://readsettlers.org
What. Are. You. On. About.
This is an Markov Chain bot or something.
The typical reaction of a cultist: denying that people that disagree exist, by dehumanizing them.
I can't reasonably be expected to formulate a response to word salad.
I could write the same about most of your smug spacelittertourist comments
No you're just a settler brain dipshit that gets uncomfortable getting called out, the fact you are an Aussie calling someone else westerner is fucking rich lmao.
I fuckin burned my draft card and was getting tear gassed protesting against the Iraq war over twenty years ago. Fuck off with that shit.
Sorry Hexbear, you should self-crit here.
I don't know why you assumed their nationality, but they clearly corrected you and you shouldn't double down.
They didn't though
They just said "fact" in quotes.
If they had said "actually I am from x" I could have engaged differently. But frankly it doesn't matter because they are getting very defensive and calling others westerners without even saying where they are from. They certainly don't have to I aint fishing for personal info or anything but given the surrounding context I could not help but respond the way I did.
Westerners try to accept that the rest of the world exists challenge: impossible
you are aware you are a westerner, right?
Every major socialist project that has had the means to invest in surface exploration has done so. Space exploration isn't valuable because of some sort of "evacuation plan" that has never been seriously proposed, but because of spin off technologies like solar panels that make life on earth better.
Terraforming other planets would be astronomically more challenging than fixing our own planet and we don't seem to be able to get our shit together to do that. Even if we are capable of terraforming other planets, it would take many centuries at minimum. O'Neal cylinders are far more likely to work once we start industrializing the moon.
If the colonization strategy is the Moon then Mars, I expect humanity would have the technology needed to colonize Mars easily while terraforming occurs.
The problem with an O'Neil Cylinder is bringing up enough processed material to build one.
The problem with an O’Neil Cylinder is bringing up enough processed material to build one.
One possible solution is a moon base. The moon is full of titanium and iron.
And then you could launch the stuff out of a weaker gravity well with no air resistance.
I don't see the application of an O’Neil Cylinder within the Earth and Mars gravity wells given how expensive they would be to build next to better places to grow crops.
If one does get built, I would expect it in orbit around Jupiter or Saturn to support activity there.
The technology developed by space exploration helps do that
Neither. We can't even unfuck Earth, where in that did we earn the privilege to pollute the cosmos?
You're so fixated on whether you can that you will never stop to question if you should. What, are you going to frack asteroids until they become space junk? Utterly violate another planet to its core for all its worth the way you've done the Earth, just to bail out like the deadbeat developer humanity has proven itself as? Disgusting, parasitic, over-consumptive, self-centered, practically narcissistic-assed question out of you.
the levels of 白左 on some hexbears, really.... 100% moralising 0% thinking
- lmao you present a moral question and then act smug when someone answers wrt morality
Do they make you
types at a factory? All the same type of smugness, all the same lack of introspection, all the same gravitas thinking they smart fellers, when they're really just fart smellers.
What's your definition of 'pollute'? I don't really get how the verb 'pollute' can apply to non-biological planets; to me the word means something like 'putting matter in places where is disrupts ecosystems'. I think the book about Gaia has a definition like this too.
Yeah no; I don't do 'quibbling definitions with sophists'. If you don't know what 'pollute' means, you're not fit to discourse with me. 🖕🖕
Classic troll move of refusing to engage when someone points out you're making no sense.
I think this is the Gaia quote they're talking about –
The very concept of pollution is anthropocentric and it may even be irrelevant in the Gaian context. Many so-called pollutants are naturally present and it becomes exceedingly difficult to know at what level the appellation 'pollutant' may be justified. Carbon monoxide, for example, which is poisonous to us and to most large mammals, is a product of incomplete combustion, a toxic agent from exhaust gases of cars, coke or coal-burning stoves, and cigarettes; a pollutant put into otherwise clean fresh air by man, you might think. However, if the air is analysed we find that carbon monoxide gas is to be found everywhere. It comes from the oxidation of methane gas in the atmosphere itself and as much as 1,000 million tons of it are so produced each year. It is thus an indirect but natural vegetable product and is also found in the swim-bladders of many sea creatures. The syphonophores, for example, are loaded with this gas in concentrations which would speedily kill us off if present in our own atmosphere at similar levels.
Almost every pollutant, whether it be in the form of sulphur dioxide, dimethyl mercury, the halocarbons, mutagenic and carcinogenic substances, or radioactive material, has to some extent, large or small, a natural background. It may even be produced so abundantly in nature as to be poisonous or lethal from the start. To live in caves of uranium-bearing rock would be unhealthy for any living creature, but such caves are rare enough to present no real threat to the survival of a species. It seems that as a species we can already with stand the normal range of exposure to the numerous hazards of our environment. If for any reason one or more of these hazards should increase, both individual and species adaptation will set in.
What is your definition of pollution tho? How can there be pollution on a lifeless rocky planet?
Again, I don't do "quibbling definitions with sophists", and honestly this just reads as techno-woo made to justify leaving dead rovers and broken satellites in our wake. "Oh, it was already there in trace amounts so we can just leave our toys scattered around the playroom." If I had that kind of laissez-faire attitude towards say, Yellowstone, I'd be put out of the park and banned for life. The fuck happened to 'leave no trace'?
Who or what is harmed by a piece of lifeless metal on a piece of lifeless rock?
You said you're against sophistry, then you said Mars=Yellowstone
Neither. We can’t even unfuck Earth, where in that did we earn the privilege to pollute the cosmos?
What kind of weird Abrahamic mental model is going on here? We need to morally prove ourselves to Jehovah and he will decree we have "earned" the "privilege" to go to some rocks? Makes no sense.
I don't think capital can sustain projects of this magnitude. Space is too harsh of an environment for delulu. We can hardly grapple with the idea that our actions on earth have consequences because of our condition. I like space stuff and I even like to create designs of starships, but I don't think we're in a position to reach for the stars just yet. Even if I'm wrong, we can't allow space fascism get started either. There is probably life out there and if space capitalism finds them, they'll try to pull another indigenous genocide and invent new forms of xenophobia to justify it.
None of our problems are technological. We have massive people problems. Building a new billions of dollar machine or trillions of dollar space station isn't going to disrupt the imperial core. The Gray Techno Fash won't suddenly become humanists because space.
Space life can be fun to think about, but techno futurism is a liberal fetish and tends to result in liberal fantasies if you don't decolonize your mind.
https://readsettlers.org tbh
Is this sub-populated mostly by Facebook people? Some of the answers really feel like it.
All these answers are so killjoy and boring. Like yeah we should strive to make our own planet better, but why not also do this? Building habitats on other worlds doesn't prevent us from caring for this one.
Plus maybe trying to make a liveable environment in space can give us new insights in preserving the one at home. Like how solar panels have come from space exploration.
Why would people want to focus more on things we can actually do right now and would improve our lives instead of completely unfeasible pipe dreams? I don't understand.
Isn't there space for both? Why not try multiple avenues? Why have this negative view on everything? Wouldn't you say the airplane and the car have tremendously improved humanity, even with all its downsides? Or the cellphone?
I bet at the time of their inventions you would be opposing it because "billionaires are bad and this industry is going to explore the working class". Guess what? Yes billionaires are bad and explore people and you (all of us) should be fighting against that, not against scientific and engineering inovation.
Isn't there space for both?
No. Flatly. You do not get to eject any more human garbage into the cosmos from which we came-- you already have WHOLE FUCKING ARRAYS of busted up satellites and pieces of rockets and a bunch of other more shit floating in high orbit that you have no plans to go retrieve, mind you; fuck would you propose making even more for? Other than the narcissistic techbro flex, I mean?
There is no way you are this upset about piece of metal existing on Mars, littering the rocks. You're upset about something else and transferring it.
It physically enrages me every time I look into the night sky ad have to question how much of what I'm seeing up there is just dead space junk. I grew up considering the cosmos more beautiful, and honestly, more sacred than even the ocean that perpetuates our planet. So no, it actually does anger me that people just brazenly throw around ideas of doing what they've already done to Earth to other planets, and honestly fuck you for trying to minimize that rage.
Are you a psychiatrist? Do you have ANY kind of accreditation or doctorate to make such a call? I don't know how you got a lemmygrad account; but I can only take it to mean the moderation there really is slipping.
It physically enrages me every time I....
I'm starting to suspect it doesn't take much to physically enrage you 😄
Starlink pisses me off to no end. The beautiful night sky is ruined by disposable trash that fucks up the ozone on re-entry just so some dork can go
about having slightly faster internet. The niche use cases where mostly already covered, now it's just been made accessible to consumers who don't ever need it.
Every industry exploits the working class under capitalism.
Are we colonizing planets or building habitats in space right now or any time in the perceivable future, though? No, so beyond a fun thought experiment or sci-fi material, it's not an idea worth giving any serious thought towards.
Right because innovation materializes itself when we want ... We just flicked our fingers and airplane, cellphone and others just appeared.
Who are you to tell what we should or should not pursue?
Are we pursuing colonizing planets or building space habitats in any serious way?
The problem isn't technological though. We could start fixing our climate mistakes today without inventing a single new thing. All of the obstacles to actually addressing the climate crisis are sociopolitical.
Drej Queen, Earth yearns for the Cleansing Light of extermination
You seem to be letting your hatred for Musk confuse you about space exploration. NASA and other governmental agencies do very important work when it comes to space exploration
My grandpa helped design and test the tech for ballistic missiles while working as a private contractor for a now defunct aerospace corporation under contract with NASA.
If he was still alive I would say he gets the wall too.
He has Musk Derangement Syndrome 🤣🤣🤣
Too much time reading clickbait
"DAE le Musk Derangement Syndrome?"
Techbros are burning the world down in swathes to fuel their theftboxes at best, and artificial lovers at worst, Neuralink just fucked some guy's brains up, Cybertrucks keep failing left and goddamn right, but sure, let's just chalk all this up to "Musk Derangement Syndrome" jesus fucking christ I hate you techbro settlers. Please die young of something preventable.
Techbros are burning the world down in swathes to fuel their theftboxes at best, and artificial lovers at worst, Neuralink just fucked some guy’s brains up, Cybertrucks keep failing left and goddamn right, but sure, let’s just chalk all this up to “Musk Derangement Syndrome” jesus fucking christ I hate you techbro settlers. Please die young of something preventable.
lol this sounds like you have smoke coming out your ears writing it
- hehehe wow you sure seem mad about the fact that billionares are destroying the planet and people like me are clapping like trained seals. Wow such a heated reaction, that means that I have won this interaction because I do not care about things. One point for me please
Culture war is when a person points out the chauvinism inherent in cracker fantasies about colonizing the stars because there is nowhere left to colonize here without just admitting to themselves they just want to subjugate everyone and everything on earth and above.
@frauddogg@hexbear.net is 100% correct in every single comment they have made in this thread.
I can't really even add anything to this other than say they right fuck off.
"As below, so above" might as well be the settler-colonizer's ethos. "As I subjugate everything below me, I must reach for what's above." At what point is Polly satisfied?
Never, apparently. Humanity will go extinct thanks to this malign tumor on our collective neck.
Also funny how libs mistake actual structural material analysis as "culture war tropes" because their framework for viewing the world is constrained by their MSNBC vs Fox News idea of good and bad and anything that challenges it must be from the wrong side of said culture war. Which funnily enough is also culture war bullshit.
"Surely I can't be racist I'm one of the good white people!"
because their framework for viewing the world is constrained by their MSNBC vs Fox News idea of good and bad
Kinda outs their whole "war is a football game to you" allegation as pure projection, doesn't it? There is fundamentally zero difference between the 'cUlTuRe WaR', the electoral race, and the "professional" handegg games that will go on in two days for these settler liberals.
Yeah they will smugly condescend to us with their "not a team sport" shit all the while demanding we vote for their particular team because harm reduction or whatever. Meanwhile every president and 99% of congress people of either party in my 40 years has done the same genocidal shit.
Are you doing a bit?
The allegation was that you're pulling everything back to culture wars, and you instantly started talking about "MSNBC vs Fox" and the USA's two-party system. In a thread about China's space program.
Not beating the allegations.
Where the hell was China even brought up? This thread afaik is about settler brainworms regarding space colonization.
Like colonize is literally in the title of this post.
Allegations of what exactly. What are you alleging about me?
Allegations of what exactly. What are you alleging about me?
Being unable to formulate a thought, because you're addicted to drawing culture war lines.
I am not even the person that you initially responded to. You're just a lib that is in way over your head in a topic you refuse to engage in critically because it makes you uncomfortable.
Acquire reading comprehension and work on why you instantly resort to smug defensiveness whenever you encounter something you disagree with
Ironically enough in their fantasy about reaching mars with privatized space planes that is an extremely likely scenario lol
I keep thinking about what's been happening to Boeings lately and smiling. "C'mon, bazinga, go see the stars." [stick-poke meme]
That submarine stunt was one of the funniest things that has ever happened.
Honestly if we wanted to do something neat that is almost exactly like settling an alien landscape we should invest in more deep sea research.
We don't even know shit about Giant Squid which are like the coolest most alien thing on earth.
Lmao at removing this but not all the smug shit coming the other way. mods=cops
Cries for civility in the face of the uncivil, demanding that subjects-of-empire kowtow and coddle the feelings of their colonizers, is the last gasp of the settler-fascist.
Buddy you responded with the most braindead lemmitor comment you could think of and then get surprised when that's the level you're engaged at. You people are dense as bricks, I'd get more introspection from the ocean in a storm.
Meh I dislike Musk as well but I don't let that cloud my judgement of his companies or science/engineering in general.
He isn't even the guy behind any discovery his manifold bought-up companies make. He's just the nepobaby failspawn of blood emerald mining company money in South Africa; and as far as I'm concerned, that makes anything that comes out of his companies while he helms them fruit of the poison tree.
We do not support, uplift, or patronize colonizers, slavers, resource-extracting thieves, or any combination of the three in this house.
He isn’t even the guy behind any discovery his manifold bought-up companies make.
Then stop obsessing on him maybe? The thread was supposed to be about space stations and stuff.
and those other bazingas are all the sameColonizer fantasies and zero knowledge about how anything works
I don't let that cloud my judgement of his companies
That says a lot about you, then. The guy's a fascist but you don't care because
muh bazingamobiles and space crap!Polly's Tenet: "I can excuse anything from anyone if it means my treats arrive on time". My parrot is literally more disciplined than these settler shitstains.
His companies suck shit too. They fuck up the ozone, suck funding from the government, produce barely anything of value and fuck up nature reserves all the time. Just a tremendous waste of resources. Had the money that has been funneled into his many shitty scams gone towards anything actually useful (even if we're talking space exploration, which I do not think is worth the investment in this society) then we would have been so much further ahead already
science/engineering in general.
yeah I don't think anybody is against the general concept of "science/engineering" here buddyI think they're just not used to anyone not soyfacing over basic sci-fi or experiencing materialist critique. They're used to Neil DeGrasse Tyson talking about how you've got stars inside you. So when it's pointed out how NASA was staffed by nazis and its' main purpose is to be a MIC front, then they start talking about morals and culture war stuff. They're smart people who
believefolloware interested in science (tm) so obviously whatever they think is rational (tm) and logical (tm) and critiques are therefore stemming from a place of emotions (bad).What I was trying to say is that most of them probably don't really think about this stuff, and then I got annoyed and expanded a bit.
Oh yeah "u r emotional lol"
is always asinine. Like the dweeb in here who responded with "wow you're pretty mad" to someone freaking out about the climate being destroyed to satisfy Elon Musks lust for impregnating women on other planets. Yeah, being angry is a rational response. Our society fetishises the idea of rationality, but since it isn't a rational society rationality gets reduced to nihilistic detached impassiveness. On top of that there's a hierarchy of what emotional reactions are acceptable and anger is at the very bottom of that list.
It's the polite Hitler meme.On the days where I am especially conspiracy brained I think those who hold cultural hegemony understand how useful it is for them that we all masturbate to the idea of "turning the other cheek" and "taking the high road", and they purposefully smash it in everywhere they can. And I'm very much not just talking about Marvel slop here.
All these answers are so killjoy and boring
Fuck you, the planet is literally on fire and you bazinga-assed techbros want to talk about escape plans. FIX WHAT YOU FUCKED UP FIRST.
Wonder if you'll be so flippant the first time you experience a wet bulb event.
The problem isn't technological though. We could start fixing our climate mistakes today without inventing a single new thing. All of the obstacles to actually addressing the climate crisis are sociopolitical.
There's nothing wrong with thinking technology is cool, but using it as a spiritual bypass is pretty silly.
Yes.
Seriously, we should be doing both as long term space habitats can serve as a way to reduce the cost of moving cargo around.
do you mean moving it around the 'city' internally? Or do you mean moving it to and from the habitat?
Should we? I dunno that's a question for the very far away future. We can't even not fuck up the livable planet we have right now, the idea we could in any way make a permanent self-sustaining colony in space is pure fantasy. But the way you've phrased it you've not asked about fantasy, the question isn't "what do you think is coolest/most feasible/sounds best/most comfortable/whatever" it's "should we A or B"
It's a pointless question at the moment. We should do whatever we can to fix the mess we're in, if we ever want to be able to make a mess out in the stars.
What do I think is coolest? Habitats
I'm not sure that fitting Earthlike habitats in giant spaceships would make sense without limitless exponential growth. Wouldn't it be more feasible to put something on the surface of a planet?
No matter how advanced our technology gets, we are not going to get around the basic constraints on energy.
♫ "AST'ROID MINE, AST'ROID MINE; (once again!) AST'ROID MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!" ♪
Genetically modify ourselves so that we can live both in zero gravity (and maybe survive short exposure to vacuum) and on other planets.
Huge sci-fi lover here. But at the same time, colonization of space for humans is possibly impossible without avatars. The human body evolved here, and it's a vessel that works here the best. To colonize other worlds, it's more economically viable to send machines, create biologically synthesized new species (taking dna from local species there), and then transfer consciousness to them. Similar with Avatar, but without having to have the spaceships arrive in the planet full of humans. Humans remain on earth, and they project their consciousness somewhere else, in an instant due to entanglement.
Until we are able to travel way faster than what we can do now, I think it’s more feasible to build in space. Lots of implications for long term effects on human bodies though. Most ideal is a wormhole to an identical planet to earth so humans won’t need to adapt.
