Yeah that makes sense. I guess part of it is that I don't see these two really convincing anyone to do anything, and that most of their fan base seems to be comprised of Warren democrats. And like Warren democrats, they're liberals who are trying to pick the most bleeding edge of liberalism so they're mostly congregating there because they are being told what they already know they want to hear. Warren, Vaush, CP all feel like liberal affirmation for twitchy cowardly dorks, rather than any movement with any coherent strategy other than whining at everyone to their left.