I know you want this guy to be cool and have radicalized since his last online spree, but I think its more likely that this guy is a total patsy than anything like that
He created one of the strongest moments of working class unity I've ever witnessed, though, I'll give him that
for agitprop purposes, it is perhaps better that this guy is so all over the place. there isn't much actual ideology to point at so we can make the propaganda of the deed into something more useful.
Indeed... if he was some sort of anarchist with long rants comparing modern health insurance CEOs to the Tzars or something and talked about tossing dynamite at them in public that immediately gives the media a "He was a nutter!" narrative
If he was a right winger who tried to do it for, I dunno, crazy conspiratorial reasons related to covid or some shit, again the media could dismiss discussion through that route
The more of a "normal" person he seems, the better for propaganda purposes
I will be very curious to see how this plays out with a jury assuming it gets to that point and he doesn't just plead guilty to get like 20 years instead of potentially life no parole (no idea what a DA would offer, just out of my ass there). 100% of Americans hate rich pricks and health insurance companies. If it gets to a trial situation 12 people have the chance to do something very funny
If a jury nullifies or says not-guilty it would cause multiple copycats. It would be a complete and total disaster for the ruling class.
My money is on this guy either not surviving to trial or getting cut a deal that nobody is allowed to talk about and media goes silent on what happened to him.
They were stupid to kill Epstein the way they did, it was so transparent that it would be hard to find people who genuinely believe that he killed himself. People make jokes about it to this day - yet what really came of it? What changes even if they behave brazenly and people know?
I subscribe to the Matt Christman thinking on this (at the time. Maybe he shifted over the years).
Basically they killed Epstein as a "flex." A giant "Oh, you little peons, you plebs figured it out, huh? Yeah, we love pedos. Yeah, he's our guy. Guess what? We're gonna kill him. And we're gonna do it in the most obvious way possible, release a fake report saying he killed himself in an impossible way, and have the media lie and call you insane if you question our obvious bullshit. It doesn't matter what you know. It doesn't matter what you can prove. We own you and we will do anything we want."
Something like that (from multiple years ago memory)
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. What's stopping them from doing the same thing to Luigi? What's really going to be different?
Not trying to be a doomer, I sincerely hope that these outrageous acts all push the people's revolution counter up by 1 and it'll eventually hit a breaking point.
Obviously nothing stops them and in the long term getting the Epstein treatment is only going to be more common. The ghouls in charge will continue to do whatever it takes to remain in power. That's not being a doomer, it's just analyzing the past and present realities and where the US (and west broadly) is on trajectory toward. Spontaneous violence is going to continue to ramp up as people's material conditions worsen and what they "have to lose" drops closer to zero. Mix in alienation from society and labor... it's amazing it isn't already happening more. People have no outlet for their anger that responds in the necessary ways. This breeds nihilism and resentment towards those who are very clearly caused these problems and continue to enrich themselves from suffering.
As shitty as the future is very clearly going to be (minus some sort of Biblical level miracle intervention from aliens or some shit) for a long while, what makes one not a doomer is still staying involved and aware, maintaining a revolutionary mindset, and accepting that we had a better world stolen from us. Instead of living in despair and succumbing totally to anger and nihilistic rage, you have to channel that righteous anger into something positive. Not everyone is going to be able to handle the stresses. Especially those not equipped with knowledge of the past and why this is happening.
But yeah, long story short, accepting the realities of state power is not doomerism. That's just reaching the correct conclusion based on all available facts. But they won't always hold all the power. There is a future that is brighter. You kind of have to believe in that even if you see no path to it now because believing otherwise, that all hope is dead, that we are doomed to extinction due to the excesses of capital... well, I can't live every moment thinking that because why am I even alive then? Being a bit of a perpetual optimist while also acknowledging the repeated failures of humanity is required to maintain sanity. For me anyway.
True but Epstein represented the decades-strong conspiracy theory of the existence of a cabal of wealthy and influential pedophiles. Pedophiles alone are pretty much universally hated, let alone people using their status to prey on children. Killing Epstein as brazenly as they did was a huge fuck you to the world and they got away with it fully.
Ok so they've already lost then? Lose lose situation and they lost the moment the bullets were fired. If that's the case then the question that matters is which way do they lose the least.
Just keep doing what they are doing. Dig up everything they can that is weird and unendearing and peel people away. The more human and less legendary he seems,the more people will find things to hate about him.
Maybe. I'm just putting this up here as I hadn't seen it here yet.
Maybe he's good, maybe he's not. I don't actually think it matters. What matters is what he did and that people think that's cool and good. The rest is white noise in my opinion, people really won't care.
It's probably better that there's no solid indication he's a raging liberal OR a raging chud. It means neither of the two halves of the working class will disown him on basis of being the "other team", which is always the biggest risk.
I think it's gross to so publicly cope away this person's blatantly problematic beliefs making others uncomfortable so you can land a percieved win for socialism and then when someone plainly says "you make me uncomfortable" in a direct response to you soapboxing, you act like you've been viscously attacked.
You said you'd support him even if he was a full right wing nutjob innit? That's completely fucked
The incoherent little guy that he is? Sure, but that's not what you said. Problematic people who hit the right target still have potential, but there's a limit.
There is not a limit provided the right targets are hit.
Everyone on this site critically supporting Iran, Assad, Russia, etc etc is supporting far worse than a right winger who targets the ruling class for exactly the right reasons that are beneficial to the working class.
You're looking for reasons to drop him instead of focusing on the important aspects of class war - Does this benefit our side in the class war? If the answer is yes, then support should be given. Just as is done with anti-imperialist war.
Iranians aren't Amerikans. That absolute techbro settler was talking about "DEI" and "woke" on his fuckin twitter page; that kind of talk gets PEOPLE LIKE ME TARGETED you absolute fucking cracker
Mentalities like yours are what I'm talking about when I say 'white hexbear'; cause even if you ain't a cracker you sure as fuck think like one. So what, you're gonna sit there and tell me that all it takes for say, a SJW poster to absolve themselves of reaction in your eyes is to kill one easily-replaced CEO that ends up profiting the company they're trying to destroy?
Why is your situation different to the situation of Iranian women or queer people?
You are targeted yes. I understand and agree with that (me too btw). So are they by the Iranian government. And yet you support Iran who murder and oppress millions under an anti-imperialist position but won't support someone that says the word woke despite their actions being actively good for the cause and side we're on and that supporting them might lead to more of the same?
First of all, you assume my support for Iran is some blanket thing like I'm out here hitting the mat five times a day. My support for Iran has always been a critical thing focused on little else but the destruction of the illegitimate settler-colony in the Middle East. It profits me nothing to align myself IN ANY WAY WITH THE CASTE THAT STILL OPPRESSES MINE IN MY OWN FUCKING COUNTRY.
You may as well ask me to fight for the soul of this soulless nation next to a fucking klansman; as such, I'm fucking done with this conversation. This is the most rank cracker shit I've ever had to read on this godforsaken forum; and anything else I can say about either this situation or what I think of you would fall under the concept of 'fedposting'.
You are no comrade of mine if this is what your understanding of Amerikan theory looks like. Once again, you mfers showing and proving why I only organize with Black formations.
I know you want this guy to be cool and have radicalized since his last online spree, but I think its more likely that this guy is a total patsy than anything like that
He created one of the strongest moments of working class unity I've ever witnessed, though, I'll give him that
for agitprop purposes, it is perhaps better that this guy is so all over the place. there isn't much actual ideology to point at so we can make the propaganda of the deed into something more useful.
Indeed... if he was some sort of anarchist with long rants comparing modern health insurance CEOs to the Tzars or something and talked about tossing dynamite at them in public that immediately gives the media a "He was a nutter!" narrative
If he was a right winger who tried to do it for, I dunno, crazy conspiratorial reasons related to covid or some shit, again the media could dismiss discussion through that route
The more of a "normal" person he seems, the better for propaganda purposes
I will be very curious to see how this plays out with a jury assuming it gets to that point and he doesn't just plead guilty to get like 20 years instead of potentially life no parole (no idea what a DA would offer, just out of my ass there). 100% of Americans hate rich pricks and health insurance companies. If it gets to a trial situation 12 people have the chance to do something very funny
If a jury nullifies or says not-guilty it would cause multiple copycats. It would be a complete and total disaster for the ruling class.
My money is on this guy either not surviving to trial or getting cut a deal that nobody is allowed to talk about and media goes silent on what happened to him.
Killing him would just make him a martyr. They're stupid if they do it
They were stupid to kill Epstein the way they did, it was so transparent that it would be hard to find people who genuinely believe that he killed himself. People make jokes about it to this day - yet what really came of it? What changes even if they behave brazenly and people know?
I subscribe to the Matt Christman thinking on this (at the time. Maybe he shifted over the years).
Basically they killed Epstein as a "flex." A giant "Oh, you little peons, you plebs figured it out, huh? Yeah, we love pedos. Yeah, he's our guy. Guess what? We're gonna kill him. And we're gonna do it in the most obvious way possible, release a fake report saying he killed himself in an impossible way, and have the media lie and call you insane if you question our obvious bullshit. It doesn't matter what you know. It doesn't matter what you can prove. We own you and we will do anything we want."
Something like that (from multiple years ago memory)
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. What's stopping them from doing the same thing to Luigi? What's really going to be different?
Not trying to be a doomer, I sincerely hope that these outrageous acts all push the people's revolution counter up by 1 and it'll eventually hit a breaking point.
Obviously nothing stops them and in the long term getting the Epstein treatment is only going to be more common. The ghouls in charge will continue to do whatever it takes to remain in power. That's not being a doomer, it's just analyzing the past and present realities and where the US (and west broadly) is on trajectory toward. Spontaneous violence is going to continue to ramp up as people's material conditions worsen and what they "have to lose" drops closer to zero. Mix in alienation from society and labor... it's amazing it isn't already happening more. People have no outlet for their anger that responds in the necessary ways. This breeds nihilism and resentment towards those who are very clearly caused these problems and continue to enrich themselves from suffering.
As shitty as the future is very clearly going to be (minus some sort of Biblical level miracle intervention from aliens or some shit) for a long while, what makes one not a doomer is still staying involved and aware, maintaining a revolutionary mindset, and accepting that we had a better world stolen from us. Instead of living in despair and succumbing totally to anger and nihilistic rage, you have to channel that righteous anger into something positive. Not everyone is going to be able to handle the stresses. Especially those not equipped with knowledge of the past and why this is happening.
But yeah, long story short, accepting the realities of state power is not doomerism. That's just reaching the correct conclusion based on all available facts. But they won't always hold all the power. There is a future that is brighter. You kind of have to believe in that even if you see no path to it now because believing otherwise, that all hope is dead, that we are doomed to extinction due to the excesses of capital... well, I can't live every moment thinking that because why am I even alive then? Being a bit of a perpetual optimist while also acknowledging the repeated failures of humanity is required to maintain sanity. For me anyway.
Epstein rented out children for sex slavery. Nobody ever considered him a hero. Just a useful asshole
True but Epstein represented the decades-strong conspiracy theory of the existence of a cabal of wealthy and influential pedophiles. Pedophiles alone are pretty much universally hated, let alone people using their status to prey on children. Killing Epstein as brazenly as they did was a huge fuck you to the world and they got away with it fully.
Yes, it was a huge fuck you, but he was not himself a martyr
Ok so they've already lost then? Lose lose situation and they lost the moment the bullets were fired. If that's the case then the question that matters is which way do they lose the least.
Just keep doing what they are doing. Dig up everything they can that is weird and unendearing and peel people away. The more human and less legendary he seems,the more people will find things to hate about him.
Maybe. I'm just putting this up here as I hadn't seen it here yet.
Maybe he's good, maybe he's not. I don't actually think it matters. What matters is what he did and that people think that's cool and good. The rest is white noise in my opinion, people really won't care.
It's probably better that there's no solid indication he's a raging liberal OR a raging chud. It means neither of the two halves of the working class will disown him on basis of being the "other team", which is always the biggest risk.
agreed
Lmao he literally liked Elon must/Anti DEI/anti woke slop. How far backwards do you need to bend over to keep this guy on a pedestal?
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You make me uncomfortable
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All of this is your head canon
I think it's gross to so publicly cope away this person's blatantly problematic beliefs making others uncomfortable so you can land a percieved win for socialism and then when someone plainly says "you make me uncomfortable" in a direct response to you soapboxing, you act like you've been viscously attacked.
And I'm the unserious one 🙃
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Stop talking to me.
fuck off?
You'll support Iran but you won't support someone that targeted and killed a member of the ruling class because they have some brainworms?
If it spawns a range of further similar events it's well worth it.
You said you'd support him even if he was a full right wing nutjob innit? That's completely fucked
The incoherent little guy that he is? Sure, but that's not what you said. Problematic people who hit the right target still have potential, but there's a limit.
There is not a limit provided the right targets are hit.
Everyone on this site critically supporting Iran, Assad, Russia, etc etc is supporting far worse than a right winger who targets the ruling class for exactly the right reasons that are beneficial to the working class.
You're looking for reasons to drop him instead of focusing on the important aspects of class war - Does this benefit our side in the class war? If the answer is yes, then support should be given. Just as is done with anti-imperialist war.
I'm literally not, you're arguing with yourself here lmao
Alright, the bit's over; you can stop the crackerposting
You'll support Iran but you won't support someone that targeted and killed a member of the ruling class because they have some brainworms?
If it spawns a range of further similar events it's well worth it.
Iranians aren't Amerikans. That absolute techbro settler was talking about "DEI" and "woke" on his fuckin twitter page; that kind of talk gets PEOPLE LIKE ME TARGETED you absolute fucking cracker
Mentalities like yours are what I'm talking about when I say 'white hexbear'; cause even if you ain't a cracker you sure as fuck think like one. So what, you're gonna sit there and tell me that all it takes for say, a SJW poster to absolve themselves of reaction in your eyes is to kill one easily-replaced CEO that ends up profiting the company they're trying to destroy?
Get fucking real.
Why is your situation different to the situation of Iranian women or queer people?
You are targeted yes. I understand and agree with that (me too btw). So are they by the Iranian government. And yet you support Iran who murder and oppress millions under an anti-imperialist position but won't support someone that says the word woke despite their actions being actively good for the cause and side we're on and that supporting them might lead to more of the same?
These principles are not consistent.
First of all, you assume my support for Iran is some blanket thing like I'm out here hitting the mat five times a day. My support for Iran has always been a critical thing focused on little else but the destruction of the illegitimate settler-colony in the Middle East. It profits me nothing to align myself IN ANY WAY WITH THE CASTE THAT STILL OPPRESSES MINE IN MY OWN FUCKING COUNTRY.
You may as well ask me to fight for the soul of this soulless nation next to a fucking klansman; as such, I'm fucking done with this conversation. This is the most rank cracker shit I've ever had to read on this godforsaken forum; and anything else I can say about either this situation or what I think of you would fall under the concept of 'fedposting'.
You are no comrade of mine if this is what your understanding of Amerikan theory looks like. Once again, you mfers showing and proving why I only organize with Black formations.
I'm personally not gonna defend this guy's shifty opinions I just genuinely don't believe it was him.
Why can't we all just laugh at his now infamous bit instead of weirdo takes. Tbh though the more stuff I see the more I'm starting to think patsy.
To the extent it matters what is the most correct take, this is the most correct take IMO.