I don't have anything to add except that people get ostracized brutally for shit that isn't that important and people are way to willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
Her videos helped me radicalize some friends in 2016/17, but her work the past 2 years has been tedious and borderline unwatchable. I don't object to her being a star in the media constellation or whatever, but her work is not for me, and hasn't been for a while. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, one of my friends who really supported Warren also can't stand her content anymore, so I wonder who it's for?
Push comes to shove, she's on the right side. But artists have to break out of their comfortable tendencies when their voices become stale.
Push comes to shove, she’s on the right side
No she's not. She's a right wing loser.
I like Natalie but imo compared to her older content current contra vids are underwhelming. She makes a decent amount of money, which is not a problem, but she does so without using her platform to push people left at this point. So I'd say she's good at producing visually appealing and entertaining videos and that I don't have anything against her but I wouldn't call her a comrade idk.
You can tell a comrade by the way they can make hour long videos empathetically analyzing the psychology of a fascist, but can only engage with people to their left by dunking on a caricature of them.
I like her, but this video is possibly her worst. No understanding of left praxis or historical materialism and rampant nationalism all the way through.
Can you explain to me what you mean by nationalism? Cause I didn't get any nationalist vibes from that video.
Socialism is internationalist. Did you see her engage with any argument that was not "This will make the US better"? Even her arguments against the possibility of Revolution were strictly in a US context.
If your primary concern is the outcome for people in your nation (and I would claim the various cultures of the US do make a nation in a loose sense of the term), you are a nationalist.
I suppose, I totally agree socialism is an international struggle. Do you think there are any arguments from a global perspective on voting? (for or against)
Yes, absolutely. On the one hand, it's possible if the Left is strong enough in the US (ie, general strike strength) that they may be able to wrest some foriegn policy concessions from Biden, despite his warhawk nature. That could be useful if we can stop right wing coups and increase support for left governments, just taking the pressure off is all some of these places need to flourish.
On the other hand, Trump's incompetence has resulted in a collapse of imperial strength. For all the awful things he has done, abandoning the Kurds, letting Saudi have it's way with Yemen, supporting fascist crackdowns in various countries, he's been pretty bad at it (the Philippines might actually have a revolution if this continues.) For the first time many client nations have begun to be able to chart their own path leftwards.
I think Trump would be better from a "how many children are drone striked or murdered by Contras" (heh) perspective. But again, arguments for Biden if you think you can strengthen the left to a proto-revolutionary force under Biden inside 4 years.
I actually just watched a video today of communist guerillas in the Philippines and how they fight it was fascinating.
TBH I kinda agree with Contra that there really is no hope for a successful revolution in the imperial core (including Canada), the right is just so much better armed and organized then we are. Seeing the successful resistance all across the globe does give me hope however.
I mean im not saying don't organize, just that if some kind of conflict breaks out in the states over the election I don't think the left is gonna play a very significant role (at least for a while).
Yeah, the question is then what is the part of US leftists? To withdraw and materially ameliorate the plight of imperial core workers instead, hoping that solidarity can be built over time? To agitate for revolution regardless, hoping an overseas upswell will aid us? Or to focus on weakening and collapsing the system entirely to free the other nations of the world to revolt?
There are good arguments for all three and I frankly am undecided myself.
Well maybe if people like her spent less time doing GOTV for Biden and more time teaching people how to organize...
oh I'm guessing they don't do that much of that.
I like Contra's videos, but she isn't a thought leader and nobody should behave as if she is one.
I don't get why people here shit on breadtube so much, we need a pipeline to radicalize people and I literally cannot think of better candidates for the entry to that pipeline then the popular youtube channels that have already pushed loads of people to the left. Like it shouldn't matter if contrapoints is a communist or not because she pushes people to a place where they are more sympathetic to the left, even pulling chuds out of the alt-right.
I literally cannot think of better candidates for the entry to that pipeline then the popular youtube channels that have already pushed loads of people to the left.
I can. Luna Oi. She is good and has theory to back it up. Do your part and steer people towards Luna.
I like Luna Oi as well, but her content is pretty explicitly pro-socialist, which will turn away a lot of libs, I think Luna is a bit further down the pipeline myself. Maybe for someone who is curious about what real world socialism actually looks like.
In what ways do they capture left spaces or push people right?
Crowding out leftists with a large entertainment brand that caricatures the left becomes ever more about idealistic navel gazing and material opulence from pushing safe, profitable “socialism that’s actually just liberal democracy with a few better policies” You don’t think this culture of brainworms is capturing leftist spaces or eventually pushing people through the “Left” anti-communist to neocon pipeline?
But that's the point of the entry to the pipeline? Their content is appealing and high quality, no it isn't Black Red Guard or something but the whole idea is that "Breadtuber" politics isn't so explicitly radical that it turns off libs, but its left enough that it exposes people to more and more left leaning content.
It's just lib bullshit and won't radicalize people to anything other than meekly voting for whoever the democrats put up.
In what way is encouraging people to vote reactionary? Yeah its not agitating for the revolution but that's the whole point of the pipeline lol, they're supposed to be the kind of thing anybody regardless of political orientation can enjoy, where any left-leaning politics are subtle enough to not turn people away but still draw people into the movement.
People like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro are effective in turning people into alt-right mass shooters because they don't advocate for the overthrow of the American state or the establishment of an ethnostate (publicly at least lol), they probably don't even realize that they are radicalizing people because its not really them that does it, its the algorithm that pushes people towards more and more extreme content.
Innuendo studios did a very good video on how the process works that I think is useful for leftists to watch.
No doubt the algorithm is deliberately tilted right.
Also "punching left" isn't a bad thing? Criticism and the open exchange of ideas will help the left adapt and grow.
What part of her criticisms were invalid? I think she made some pretty good points about online leftists, and the unlikeliness of a socialist revolution occurring anytime soon.
Well numero uno on all of this is that she doesn't actually ever recommend or cite historical documentation for anything she says (at least back when I first watched her). She also hasn't read any theory and is proud of not having read it. I'm not saying that old dead white guys are correct, but I am saying if you want to engage with an ideology critically you have to at least read some of what the other side is reading, and Natalie only ever engages in the online posting part of theoretical engagment, for anything she talks about.
And being aware of the lack of impending revolution =/= actively stanning reactionaries like Biden. I hate throwing out fucking Lenin quotes because of how much of a puritanical nerd he was, but "there are decades where nothing happens, and days where decades happen."
We will get a whole bunch of "leftists" who support Joe Biden.
AKA a bunch of cowards, liars, and fools.
If they are attached to who they voted for they arent ready to be a leftist. If they are ready to be a leftist voting for biden does not equal support.
Discussing electoralism is always a great way to piss everyone off tbh. I still think it's still important to vote in local elections, like stuff like prop 22 would kill my job if it passed, but I also live in CA where my vote for president has never mattered. So idgaf if I vote for Biden or not, I'd rather just throw it to a third party because more people gotta vote third party for it to ever matter, so might as well in my mind. So I understand the argument of not voting, especially for dem/republicans, but at the same time so many people can't vote because of an endless stream of things and it also could also be argued that a person should vote to help those that can't. Not saying anything is right or wrong here at all, and especially not going to vote shame someone either way. It's a very hard topic, and no matter your stance, someone is going to say you're wrong, so just do whatever the fuck you want IMO
I kinda like her stuff but I also feel like I've outgrown it. Kinda one of those "once you get the message hang up the phone" type situations. I guess it can still be entertaining for some tho. Also, doesn't she make like $25k a month from patreon? I only mention this because people act surprised that she's more invested in maintaining her own financial security through the status quo instead of advocating for radical systemic change.
Agreed. I like the A E S T H E T I C and the characters, but I'm over here yelling about how we have to, as a base line, abolish private property, and she's definitely not there yet.
No struggle at all - her videos have helped pull very lib people in my 'mums group' (mums with newborns in my area) to the left, and they're a pretty rad bunch now. She's a great stepping stone with some sometimes shitty opinions. Stepping stones are made for jumping off of though.
wait wdym? like she is mean to different leftist ideologies? like half of this website against MLs or anarchists?
I generally find social liberals to be boring and unimaginative thinkers, she's no exception, great at making disillusioned liberals less annoying tho
Contra is a lib but I like her anyway, most entertainers are libs. I also feel for her because her audience has probably sucked all the joy out of making videos. She's getting paid well for now but microceleb status seems precarious and invasive.
