cross-posted from: https://lemmy.crimedad.work/post/12162

Why? Because apparently they need some more incentive to keep units occupied. Also, even though a property might be vacant, there's still imputed rental income there. Its owner is just receiving it in the form of enjoying the unit for himself instead of receiving an actual rent check from a tenant. That imputed rent ought to be taxed like any other income.

      • ATQ@lemm.ee
        ·
        1 year ago

        They pay for it to be built. Unless you think the workers should work for free and not receive any benefit from their labor. Does hexbear know you feel this way? 🤣

          • ATQ@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            Landlords pay up front (directly or via a loan, which the renters presumably cannot get) and assume the risk of vacancies and repairs. If landlords ceased to exist, how do you propose new housing stock be created? Should the government be your landlord?

            • Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.website
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Landlords pay up front (directly or via a loan, which the renters presumably cannot get) and assume the risk of vacancies and repairs.

              And then they get bailed out by the government when their risk blows up.

              https://www.wsj.com/articles/landlords-were-never-meant-to-get-bailout-funds-many-got-it-anyway-11590494400

              https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/four-reasons-landlords-should-take-advantage-federal-rental-assistance/

              And they have little to no risk in the first place because the market has such high demand that they can pretty much instantly fill vacancies, and they barely do repairs if at all. And at least where I live, renters are required to have/pay for renters insurance which further drives down the landlord's risk. And on top of all that, they have security deposits to lower their risk even further. They don't take on any meaningful risk.

              If landlords ceased to exist, how do you propose new housing stock be created? Should the government be your landlord?

              Government investment into housing development (which then turn into market rate housing/co-ops), zoning fixes, and a LVT is the solution. The builders get paid, home ownership becomes affordable, the risks are dealt with, and renters aren't being priced gouged. It would also do wonders to help fix the homelessness crisis.

              And none of it needs the government to own your home.

              • ATQ@lemm.ee
                ·
                1 year ago

                Investment into housing development, zoning fixes, market rate housing, co-ops, and a LVT is the solution.

                You can’t be serious? Let’s review.

                Investment into housing development

                By who..? Come on, be honest, who do you think is going to do this 🤣

                zoning fixes

                That allow who to build more housing?

                market rate housing

                Is literally what the West has right now.

                Co-Ops

                We have these now.

                and a LVT

                This is a fine step. Most states have property taxes now that include the land that a rental sits on.

                If you can’t pay for your own housing, your choices are either for the government to pay for it, or for the private sector to pay for it. In either event the entity that owns your house, that isn’t you, is your landlord. If you can’t pay for your own housing, and you don’t want the private sector or the government to provide it for you, then you’re homeless.

                • Olgratin_Magmatoe@startrek.website
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  By who…? Come on, be honest

                  It was implied, but I later edited my comment, the government should do so. We have a massive housing crisis on our hands and there needs to be a solution. The government is so bloated that there is easily already the money somewhere to divert to something actually worthwhile.

                  That allow who to build more housing?

                  Private developers, individual citizens, the government itself, etc. Anybody and everybody with a willingness to build a house should be able to do so without dealing with the ridiculous zoning laws we have now.

                  Is literally what the West has right now.

                  We have these now.

                  We have market-rate housing and co-ops at such a low rate. We need a massive increase in quantity. The private sector won't do this because there is no profit motive, so it largely has to be the government who is building these. But once their built it shouldn't be the government who owns it, it should be the co-ops, market-rate housing orgs, or literally individual citizens who own the housing,

                  Most states have property taxes now that include the land that a rental sits on.

                  I don't want property taxes. Those need to be removed along with all other types of taxation. The only valid type of taxation should be land value tax, and a carbon emission tax. A property tax punishes a land owner for developing their land and using it more efficiently. A land value tax on the other hand incentivizes more effective use. It's a massive topic and a massive difference. If you want to learn more I would recommend looking into georgism.

                  In either event the entity that owns your house, that isn’t you, is your landlord.

                  I disagree with your definition.

                  • commiewithoutorgans [he/him, comrade/them]
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Ah God, I was wondering (cheering for) when you'd make the turn to "politically only possible with a socialist government" or something along those lines, but now I see you're one of the famed georgists. First I've seen in the wild!

                  • ATQ@lemm.ee
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    If you want to argue that it is a valid use of the state to produce low cost housing then this is an interesting conversation. But much of the rest of your response is nonsense. For instance -

                    I don't want property taxes. Those need to be removed along with all other types of taxation. The only valid type of taxation should be land value tax, and a carbon emission tax.

                    You’re going to fund all the social programs of a modern government via, essentially, no taxes? Come on. If you want the government to provide a robust social safety net, including housing, you’ll be looking at Nordics level taxation.

                    I disagree with your definition.

                    You can be wrong if you want to be.

            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              Landlords pay up front (directly or via a loan

              You're describing a developer. Most landlords aren't developers.

              And yes, the government should take on the role of developing residential properties and ensuring everyone has access to them. Housing is not a commodity, it's a basic human need.

              • came_apart_at_Kmart [he/him, comrade/them]
                ·
                1 year ago

                not to mention, many big developers aren't paying cash to construct housing. they get a loan or establish a line of credit with or brokered via investors/banks/funds. the first rule of doing anything under capitalism is to use somebody else's money to do it, and all those loans drawing on lines of credit ultimately leads back to the central bank anyway.

                it's a massive shell game to obscure the fact that workers do all the work to create the products and services and then have to pay their shitty wages right back to access the very things they create, just so maybe 2-3 million megarich assholes can roll around in piles of money and make an income for doing literally nothing.

                landlords are among the most nakedly parasitic sectors of society, and even then we still get bootlicking bozos pretending they "provide" housing or are somehow responsible for the community infrastructure that makes living in the place where the house exists desirable.

        • silent_water [she/her]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          of course they do. we actually understand that production doesn't require middle men. we're communists, fool.

          • ATQ@lemm.ee
            ·
            1 year ago

            Oh, so you just want the state to be your landlord? Enjoy your cinderblock gulag.

              • bagend
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                deleted by creator

              • ATQ@lemm.ee
                ·
                1 year ago

                You can rent from someone else. That’s actually easier than moving cities, states, or countries.

                  • ATQ@lemm.ee
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    If you want to argue that the government should develop low cost housing, that’s an interesting discussion. In general, “supply” regardless of how it’s created, is the answer to high housing prices. I do fear that you’ll be dissatisfied with the quality of that government housing.

            • UlyssesT
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              deleted by creator

            • uralsolo
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              deleted by creator

            • Nicklybear [she/her]
              ·
              1 year ago

              As someone who has been homeless, I would MUCH rather live my entire life in a "cinderblock gulag" then spend even a second homeless. So, yes, if we ever were to get such buildings provided to us from the government, I would greatly enjoy them.

            • Catradora_Stalinism [she/her, comrade/them]
              ·
              1 year ago

              sis, I would love living in a small apartment complex where everything is either five minutes away or easily accessed by public transportation

              I would love being in an environment that promotes a collective spirit where people spend more time outside than inside

              I would love having housing be 4% AT MOST of my monthly paycheck

              but we gotta have idiots with trillions because they deserve to hang us out to dry, is that it?

        • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          No they usually don't pay for anything to be built. Even if they did, they just pay for it with other peoples labor (their renters)

        • bagend
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          deleted by creator

            • The_Jewish_Cuban [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              Because you don't seem to be connecting the points together. Lead a horse to water but can't force it to drink kinda situation.

              Landlords didn't do anything but have capital. Workers built the damn thing.

              That's the water I was talking about.

                • boboblaw [he/him, they/them]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  smh at the products of the American school system

                  you're replying to someone who said landlords are unnecessary middlemen in the construction of housing. your mocking analogy is "people buying things with credit cards". do you not see how funny a self-own that is?

                  the landlords are the credit cards in your analogy. people bought things before credit cards existed. people built housing before landlords existed. landlords are as necessary to the building of housing as credit cards are to the buying of toilet paper.

                  tho I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Buttcoin was necessary for cleaning your shitty ass.

    • tracyspcy@lemmy.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      Landlords do not build houses, they just rent them out. Housing, shelter call it whatever you like is human right and essential need, so it should not be a part of speculations for profits. Now you can see overpriced real estate because of investors who buy it and never live there. All this "helpers" who rent out their apartments bring more harm than benefit for society (they at least contribute to a price growth in real estate). Buildings could be constructed by government owned organizations in order to provide society with housing, no need in speculators to solve problems.

        • Flyberius [comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Ok, so you want the government to be the landlord as you have more trust in a government monopoly than in a market.

          Yup. Basically. Although it is worth noting that the type of government we currently have, beholden to capital, is not trustworthy. Their priorities first and foremost are to serving corporate interests, which is probably why you trust them so little. Any power or public capital they are entrusted with gets pumped into private companies whose sole purpose is to make as much profit as possible for as little expenditure.

          Any government brave enough to outlaw private landlords is going to have much more socially oriented priorities and will be much more inclined to serve the public good rather than the almighty market.

        • tracyspcy@lemmy.ml
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          depends on problem you are going to solve, if you want to provide people with affordable housing, then challenge your beliefs in almighty market.

        • panopticon [comrade/them]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Fair.

          If we, the workers, are the ones running that government monopoly and not an oligopoly of landlords and other speculators then yes, that would be more fair. It's also a vastly more efficient way to guarantee that everyone is housed, as history shows

    • booty [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Hmm yes, when I want a house built I call up a landlord, this is very logical behavior

    • Washburn [she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      The same crews who do now 🤨

      I never saw a landlord or developer do any work to prepare an area or build anything on any of the jobsites I was on.