how many protests have been violently broken up by pigs in america since this happened in china 3 decades ago? ameridumbs don’t even question why they’re thinking about some made up 35 year old propaganda rather than any of the hundreds of protests in the US since that date, which has seen how many of their fellow citizens brutalized if not killed?

reminder: the dude who was standing in front of the tank literally climbed on top of it, opened it, talked to the soldiers, closed it, and walked away. he was not run over.

death to amerikkka

and of course all the comments are “lol im a rednote user so i dont know what this is lol because those evil chinese are liars lol get the joke??? i said i dont know what this is lol isnt that so funny?”

  • Awoo [she/her]
    ·
    2 days ago

    For lurking libs and questioning soft-left. Here's some western sources backing us up, not even communist.

    The Telegraph lays it out pretty reasonably in this article in my opinion, and since it's a right wing tory rag I assume no liberals are gonna accuse me of it being "commie propaganda" lmao.

    But don't just take that as the only example. How about we also look back at old articles written at the time it actually occurred?

    CBS NEWS: “We saw no bodies, injured people, ambulances or medical personnel — in short, nothing to even suggest, let alone prove, that a “massacre” had occurred in [Tiananmen Square]”

    BBC NEWS: “I was one of the foreign journalists who witnessed the events that night. There was no massacre on Tiananmen Square”

    NY TIMES: In June 13, 1989, NY Times reporter Nicholas Kristof – who was in Beijing at that time – wrote, “State television has even shown film of students marching peacefully away from the [Tiananmen] square shortly after dawn as proof that they [protesters] were not slaughtered.” In that article, he also debunked an unidentified student protester who had claimed in a sensational article that Chinese soldiers with machine guns simply mowed down peaceful protesters in Tiananmen Square.

    REUTERS: Graham Earnshaw was in the Tiananmen Square on the night of June 3. He didn’t leave the square until the morning of June 4th. He wrote in his memoir that the military came, negotiated with the students and made everyone (including himself) leave peacefully; and that nobody died in the square.

    A Wikileaks cable from the US Embassy in Beijing (sent in July 1989) also reveals the eyewitness accounts of a Latin American diplomat and his wife: “They were able to enter and leave the [Tiananmen] square several times and were not harassed by troops. Remaining with students … until the final withdrawal, the diplomat said there were no mass shootings in the square or the monument.”


    If instead of me using western major news sources to support my point you'd somehow still want this from my communist perspective. These three pieces are pretty good:

    https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/

    https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/

    https://archive.ph/24zzF

    • dragonfly4933@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      ·
      21 hours ago

      What exactly is your claim? I can perhaps infer you are trying to make the claim that no people were killed in Tiananmen Square? Maybe this is true, but it is sidestepping the fact that most of the sources you link to state that the PLA killed people in or around Tiananmen Square in response to political activity.

      I am not plugged into this community, so I have no idea what the purpose of your post is, but I can dig into the linked articles and find specific quotes that confirm that the PLA killed people around the area.

      Governments in general employ tactics that find pointless, incorrect, or inconsequential inconsistencies to try to poke holes in inconvenient narratives, which is what I suspect the line of quotes is about.

      I will admit, I learned something today. I learned that people were not killed IN the square, but OUTSIDE the square.

      Does it really matter if the government killed people in the square or outside the square? The fact is, they killed people extrajudicially, at least according to your links.

      Telegraph:

      The cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and released exclusively by The Daily Telegraph, partly confirm the Chinese government's account of the early hours of June 4, 1989, which has always insisted that soldiers did not massacre demonstrators inside Tiananmen Square.

      Instead, the cables show that Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters outside the centre of Beijing, as they fought their way towards the square from the west of the city.

      You quote

      CBS NEWS: “We saw no bodies, injured people, ambulances, or medical personnel — in short, nothing to even suggest, let alone prove, that a “massacre” had occurred in [Tiananmen Square]”

      From the very same article:

      Some have found it uncomfortable that all this conforms with what the Chinese government has always claimed, perhaps with a bit of sophistry: that there was no "massacre in Tiananmen Square."

      But there's no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square, and on the way to it — mostly in the western part of Beijing. Maybe, for some, comfort can be taken in the fact that the government denies that, too.

      You quote:

      BBC NEWS: “I was one of the foreign journalists who witnessed the events that night. There was no massacre on Tiananmen Square”

      That text does not exist in the linked article. You changed it without any indication that you did it.

      Here is the actual text:

      Such was the case with the massacre in Beijing on 3 and 4 June, 1989. I was one of the foreign journalists who witnessed the events that night.

      We got the story generally right, but on one detail I and others conveyed the wrong impression. There was no massacre on Tiananmen Square.

      Your text from NY Times:

      NY TIMES: In June 13, 1989, NY Times reporter Nicholas Kristof – who was in Beijing at that time – wrote, “State television has even shown film of students marching peacefully away from the [Tiananmen] square shortly after dawn as proof that they [protesters] were not slaughtered.” In that article, he also debunked an unidentified student protester who had claimed in a sensational article that Chinese soldiers with machine guns simply mowed down peaceful protesters in Tiananmen Square.

      Here you are trying to emphasize the claim “[protesters] were not slaughtered”? You make no specific statement, so I can only respond with this quote from the same article.

      State television has even shown film of students marching peacefully away from the square shortly after dawn as proof that they were not slaughtered. The disagreement is partly one about the definition of the square. … Troops fired on civilians in many parts of the city, but the shooting was concentrated along the Avenue of Eternal Peace, or Changan Avenue, which runs on the north side of the square. There was heavy shooting in the Muxidi district to the west of Tiananmen Square, and there were also many casualties along the Avenue of Eternal Peace to the immediate east of the square, as well as on streets to the south of the square.

      This reporter saw troops fire on and kill people on the Avenue of Eternal Peace on the northern part of the square as well as some who were on a segment of the square just north of the avenue, near the Tiananmen Gate. But there is no firm indication that troops fired on the students occupying the monument in the middle of the square.

      Reuters:

      As to body count: I saw several people, young men, lying on flatbed tricycles being carried away from the square. They were inert and covered in blood. Dead or wounded, I have no idea. On the afternoon of June 4, I saw people fall on Changan Avenue as troops opened fire on them. I have no idea if they were wounded, killed, or simply fainting.

      How many people died that night in Beijing? What was the price of the years of superficial political stability that followed?

      Most of the killing did not take place on or near the Square, that is clear. The official line, first espoused by Communist Party propaganda guru Yuan Mu a couple of nights later on national television, was that 23 people had died on the night of June 3/4. It was ludicrous. Nobody who was in Beijing at that time believed it.

      Wikileaks:

      1. THE GALLOS POSITIONED THEMSELVES NEAR THE RED CROSS STATION AT THE FOOT OF THE STEPS TO THE MUSEUM. INITIALLY NOT MUCH WAS HAPPENING IN THE SQUARE AS MOST OF THE FIGHTING WAS TAKING PLACE TO THE WEST. BODIES AND WOUNDED, HOWEVER, BEGAN TO ARRIVE AT THE RED CROSS STATION INDICATING THE EXTENT OF THE FIGHTING AND THE FACT THAT REAL BULLETS WERE BEING USED. AS THE MILITARY BEGAN TO REACH THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE SQUARE AND SHOTS WERE FIRED IN THE VICINITY OF THE RED CROSS STATION, MRS. GALLO DECIDED SHE WANTED TO LEAVE. THE GALLOS MADE THEIR WAY BACK TO THEIR CAR AND DROVE BACK TO THEIR APARTMENT IN SANLITUN. GALLO DROPPED OFF HIS WIFE AND DROVE BACK TO THE SQUARE, AGAIN PARKING EAST OF THE MUSEUM.

      I thought this article was a fun read: https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/

      On one avenue in western Beijing, demonstrators torched an entire military convoy of more than 100 trucks and armored vehicles. Aerial pictures of conflagration and columns of smoke have powerfully bolstered the [Chinese] government’s arguments that the troops were victims, not executioners. Other scenes show soldiers’ corpses and demonstrators stripping automatic rifles off unresisting soldiers,” admitted the Washington Post in a story that was favorable to anti-government opposition on June 12, 1989.

      This is not flattering to the PLA, that they let 100 vehicles get torched by some random ad hoc insurrection in their own capital.

      • Awoo [she/her]
        ·
        edit-2
        12 hours ago

        What exactly is your claim?

        That China's version of events is most accurate. Not the western fantasy story of a bunch of unarmed peaceful students being the subject of a mass shooting in the square.

        Protesters burned 2 unarmed police negotiators alive. This provoked the clearing of the square, and it was after the clearing of the square and over the course of several hours that battles between the PLA and armed participants resulted in the deaths of some 300-400 people in surrounding streets over an area of many miles, many hundreds of the dead being PLA themselves.

        I will not post the dead police negotiators, the imagery is GRUESOME, you are welcome to confirm that though.

        This is not flattering to the PLA, that they let 100 vehicles get torched by some random ad hoc insurrection in their own capital.

        You're not wrong, there were huge mistakes that day. But it is an illustration of just how much the PLA did not want to harm people which flies in the face of the boogeyman story of a massacre of unarmed students popular in the west.


        The correct story is something you will see us raise again and again, the lie of a massacre of innocents at the square is absolute nonsense. We combat this lie because when people wake up to a lie like this, one that is VERY easy to prove, people start to wake up about what other propaganda exists in their lives. You are not immune to propaganda (and neither is anyone here), opening this mindset up pulls people leftwards away from the liberals.

        You'll come across a lot of "the tankies claim nothing happened at Tienanmen", and upon realising that actually our position on this is fairly measured you might also question how much you've been misled about what other views we have, which are also quite measured and not baseless.

      • Awoo [she/her]
        ·
        1 day ago

        Collected from other's work here at some point or another. I wanna guessssss one of them was probably @Alaskaball@hexbear.net maybe? I'm not sure. I rarely source my copy pastes because they're usually mashups of many different things I pick up over time.

    • spectre [he/him]
      ·
      2 days ago

      You can also watch the documentary "the gate of heavenly peace" on YouTube. It kinda stirred up controversy "on both sides". That doesn't make it necessarily correct, but it at least shows you where they stand.