A lot of discussions about the TS incident gets bogged in what happened and what didn't happen and so on. But I think something a lot of communists and socialists (even on this site) need to focus on is why the Chinese government "censors" the incident.
The fact is the Chinese government is pretty open about what happened. They talk about the people who were killed surrounding the square, both students/protestors and security forces. What they don't like is the western propaganda surrounding the incident and the lies surrounding it that have arisen organically from that propaganda in the west. See, in China you are not permitted to lie to the public about other people, the government, history, companies, and so on. And they are sensitive to certain topics because they are such common lies used to defame China. They will not stand for the defamation especially on platforms they control and nor should they.
Think of it like this, whenever China is doing well or something is going on with China, oop, here we go: pictures of the square and the student protestors or tank-guy/bag-man. When Shinzo Abe was offed by the doohickey, were there posts on Reddit about Nanjing? When Germany sent tanks to Ukraine do we see images on /r/pics about Dachau? No, of course not. Only China and Iran get this treatment.
Some ill-intentioned westerners will go on Xiaohongshu and post about TS and get banned and decry that they were censored, oh no! "I ran into my neighbor's house and shit on the living room floor and he kicked me out! I'm being oppressed!" China does not want these people stinking up the place. Most Americans in these spaces don't want these people stinking up the place. Instead they are sent packing back to their house, western social media, where the floor is already covered in shit so they can pretend like they are privileged to sit in it and enjoy the smell.
I'm not even here to claim this is a psy-op because it does not need to be, this lashing out at China whenever they are experiencing growth and openness is likely purely organic. I think there is a deep sadness in the heart of the west - at the unnecessary struggle daily life can be for the average person. This is doubly true for Americans. We have already seen how emotional people are getting to see how well the Chinese are doing on average. The lament that life doesn't have to be so hard. The realization they have been lied to. It is jarring to the psyche to have a fundamental element of your worldview reversed overnight. There is almost a grieving process at all the potential you lost by believing and living the lie. Sadness is a stage, as is anger. For most westerners they never move past denial.
It is somewhat organic though, like the US did seed a lot of the propaganda initially, but like most of the West's propaganda it's self-fuelling now. It used to be that people kept to within the lines of the propaganda, now people just invent whatever the fuck they want and the scarier it sounds, the more real it could possibly be - and if you push back, well, you're just a red fash tankie SeeSeePee shill
Like I've seen people just whip out the most asinine shit about China clear out of thin air, and not from terminally online users either. I know someone who's otherwise fully disconnected from politics and online discourse but truly believes that China is building back doors into consumer cleaning robots so that they can map out someone's house and, if they ever speak ill of China, break in and kidnap them to disappear them. He doesn't even mean like dissidents living here, he straight up thinks China will disappear random Canadians for speaking ill of Xi around their Roomba
Well the government wastes money on fruitless tasks all the time. But also they will be using it to reinforce the ignorant nonsense people already believe. Propaganda works best when it plays on preconceived notions. You can't just spend a billion dollars to convince people the average Chinese person has four arms and expect it to work. Additionally, I find it funny sometimes how much we leftists think anything that reinforces western ignorance must be by bots or whatever. It's a very liberal take. We have to start recognizing that westerners on average can be extremely ignorant all on their own.
Are we really out here trying to pretend that Americans don't hold ignorant backwards views about China? That everything they post online about it must be directly paid for by the US government?
This "everything like this must be a bot" is some real liberal posting. Do better, folks.
?? I hope you didn't think I was aiming that at you
I was just (trying to) riff and agree with you that they don't need to be paid, this was a funny image I saw that I thought was pointed at the same thing but I guess it wasn't clear
okay, sorry, in my mind it comes off like "hey American, why are you doing all this without getting paid?" but I could see how it could be read other ways.
None of this is meant to downplay the scale of the propaganda project. I’ve spent enough time chasing down leads on different intelligence fronts and their plots to know that they are real and have real effects. [7] I do not deny that the outcomes we observe are at all times incentivized and enforced both overtly and covertly by our various societal superstructures (police, education, culture) and that principled and effective truth-tellers have been assassinated. I reject only the common misconception that propaganda “manufactures consent” (Chomsky) or “invents reality” (Parenti), because it exaggerates the feat accomplished by propagandists, and, in doing so, it obscures the real material basis that has historically made even the working poor in the imperial core complicit.
(engaging)
A lot of discussions about the TS incident gets bogged in what happened and what didn't happen and so on. But I think something a lot of communists and socialists (even on this site) need to focus on is why the Chinese government "censors" the incident.
The fact is the Chinese government is pretty open about what happened. They talk about the people who were killed surrounding the square, both students/protestors and security forces. What they don't like is the western propaganda surrounding the incident and the lies surrounding it that have arisen organically from that propaganda in the west. See, in China you are not permitted to lie to the public about other people, the government, history, companies, and so on. And they are sensitive to certain topics because they are such common lies used to defame China. They will not stand for the defamation especially on platforms they control and nor should they.
Think of it like this, whenever China is doing well or something is going on with China, oop, here we go: pictures of the square and the student protestors or tank-guy/bag-man. When Shinzo Abe was offed by the doohickey, were there posts on Reddit about Nanjing? When Germany sent tanks to Ukraine do we see images on /r/pics about Dachau? No, of course not. Only China and Iran get this treatment.
Some ill-intentioned westerners will go on Xiaohongshu and post about TS and get banned and decry that they were censored, oh no! "I ran into my neighbor's house and shit on the living room floor and he kicked me out! I'm being oppressed!" China does not want these people stinking up the place. Most Americans in these spaces don't want these people stinking up the place. Instead they are sent packing back to their house, western social media, where the floor is already covered in shit so they can pretend like they are privileged to sit in it and enjoy the smell.
I'm not even here to claim this is a psy-op because it does not need to be, this lashing out at China whenever they are experiencing growth and openness is likely purely organic. I think there is a deep sadness in the heart of the west - at the unnecessary struggle daily life can be for the average person. This is doubly true for Americans. We have already seen how emotional people are getting to see how well the Chinese are doing on average. The lament that life doesn't have to be so hard. The realization they have been lied to. It is jarring to the psyche to have a fundamental element of your worldview reversed overnight. There is almost a grieving process at all the potential you lost by believing and living the lie. Sadness is a stage, as is anger. For most westerners they never move past denial.
The US just alotted $1.5 billion to anti Chinese propaganda, so I'm not so sure about that
It is somewhat organic though, like the US did seed a lot of the propaganda initially, but like most of the West's propaganda it's self-fuelling now. It used to be that people kept to within the lines of the propaganda, now people just invent whatever the fuck they want and the scarier it sounds, the more real it could possibly be - and if you push back, well, you're just a red fash tankie SeeSeePee shill
Like I've seen people just whip out the most asinine shit about China clear out of thin air, and not from terminally online
users either. I know someone who's otherwise fully disconnected from politics and online discourse but truly believes that China is building back doors into consumer cleaning robots so that they can map out someone's house and, if they ever speak ill of China, break in and kidnap them to disappear them. He doesn't even mean like dissidents living here, he straight up thinks China will disappear random Canadians for speaking ill of Xi around their Roomba
Agreed, 1.6 billion does some wonders
My fellow Americans will do this sort of shit for free I assure you.
If that were the case, the government wouldn't be dumping money into it
Well the government wastes money on fruitless tasks all the time. But also they will be using it to reinforce the ignorant nonsense people already believe. Propaganda works best when it plays on preconceived notions. You can't just spend a billion dollars to convince people the average Chinese person has four arms and expect it to work. Additionally, I find it funny sometimes how much we leftists think anything that reinforces western ignorance must be by bots or whatever. It's a very liberal take. We have to start recognizing that westerners on average can be extremely ignorant all on their own.
Are we really out here trying to pretend that Americans don't hold ignorant backwards views about China? That everything they post online about it must be directly paid for by the US government?
This "everything like this must be a bot" is some real liberal posting. Do better, folks.
?? I hope you didn't think I was aiming that at you
I was just (trying to) riff and agree with you that they don't need to be paid, this was a funny image I saw that I thought was pointed at the same thing but I guess it wasn't clear
Honestly, I could not tell.
okay, sorry, in my mind it comes off like "hey American, why are you doing all this without getting paid?" but I could see how it could be read other ways.
Note (from Red Sails)