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  • 777 [none/use name]
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    edit-2
    4 years ago

    doing my best to phrase this in a way that does not invite a shitstorm or sound like pointing fingers

    in philadelphia an org's inability to think on their feet ended up splitting a large march and may have gotten people arrested last night - again asking organizers when planning protests to account for spontaneity and if a huge amount of people from the actual community are marching one way that isn't in your pre-planned route please don't throw a tantrum about it. i dont want to go into more detail (but that's also pretty much the gist of my concern) so please dont turn this post into a jumping off point to dunk on whoever, unless you absolutely really need to, in which case go for it

    other than that, donate to some bail funds if you can

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
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        4 years ago

        This is exactly what drums, pipes, and flags are for. If you have drummers, pipers, flags, and someone who can yell real loud you can make a march do whatever you want.

        • fluorescentlights [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          Love how we're learning a bunch of shit that would've been common knowledge in Medieval Europe lol. Like holding a shield line and why that guy is carrying a fucking flag instead of a spear.

          • the_river_cass [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            interspersed through, depending on the size of the crowd, otherwise people won't be able to hear what's going on. ideally, you want coordinated people who can make enough noise split up through the crowd for every few hundred people.

    • Mardoniush [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      Lenin and most of the major orgs took this tack of supporting the people even when success is unlikely or it wasnt the vanguard line.

      The Vanguard is there to stiffen the masses, and help implement their will in the most successful way.

    • AbolishAmerikkka [he/him]
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      edit-2
      4 years ago

      This is the exact critique articulated in “The tyranny of tyranny” which was a response to “the tyranny of structurelessness.” Organizations come to see their first priority as carrying out their pre-planned program and perpetuating themselves as an organization and as leaders, rather than being able to let the proles lead themselves and being there to support people who fight back in the ways they’ve decided to.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
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        4 years ago

        I understand why second wave feminism happened and why it was important, but holy shit the gender politics in that document are cringe. For entirely historical reasons, but god damn.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
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        4 years ago

        But the take away from this is you need officers who have goals and NCOs who can impliment those goals. No plan survives first contact, so when your plan gets ventilated the decision making officers need to be able to say "We need to get to the piggly wiggly so we can get cakes" and the NCOs need to say "The shortest route is down the I-5. We'll need to steal a Mack truck to plough through the rush out traffic". Then the officer says "Do it" and teh NCO gets the troops to work hijacking a semi-truck.

        This is why warbands are the best organizing structure. You simply need a shot caller whose drinking and fucking and dancing prowess inspires immediate aww and loyalty, and a couple of war leaders who have experience as babysitters and wilderness firefighters who can organize the great mass of teenage wastoids you will collect.

    • fluorescentlights [she/her]
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      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Revolutionary leadership isn't a bad thing, but the left does have a problem with out of touch bougie cool kid organizers. So this is proof that the revolutionary has to be able to think on their feet in more than one way:

      • Avoiding dumb shit like this.
      • Looking up from the pages of State and Revolution and being able to identify threats beyond the pay grade of your precious theory.
    • the_river_cass [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      this is the shit that makes me mad enough to scream at people. put your fucking egos away, learn to adapt plans on the fly, and prioritize people not getting hurt over everything else.

        • the_river_cass [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          I know, I've been there but learning to assess whether the direction of the action is something you can even control or if the only thing you can do is damage mitigation is extremely critical. and I've seen egos come into this often enough that I can't set that explanation aside, either.

        • the_river_cass [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          no, fleeing almost always risks more. think about it like dealing with a predator -- if a bear walks up on you and you turn and run, what happens? your tactics need to adapt to the situation you're actually in. sometimes that means aggression is the best way to stay safe and other times it means a cautious retreat, but turning and running is almost always the best way to get everyone hurt/split up and isolated. it's the same reason you want to shout walk when people start to run away from something.