Anyone who wants to can go find out the truth of that claim and they will find that it was Ukraine/NATO that broke the agreements which is literally the reason it came to war. This was admitted to openly even by Angela fucking Merkel, who said they only drafted the agreements to buy time for Ukraine to build up more arms and continue antagonizing the Donbas.
The Angela Merkal who urged Ukraine to stop fighting when Russia invaded Crimea? The Angela Merkal who routinely advocated appeasement?
As far as Ukraine breaking the agreement, I assume you mean the accusation of continued shelling? When even the DPR claimed responsibility for fighting as well, claiming Minsk 2 did not apply to Donetsk.
You still haven't answered: what should Ukraine negotiate for? Given the fact that Russia has broken every treaty on Ukrainian borders since 1995, why should Ukraine trust another negotiation?
They should negotiate to stop the mass murder going on.
What does that look like? A dissolution of the russian federation, complete Russian disarmament, ane the imprissonment of Vladimir Putin would stop this. Why isn't Russia offering that? Why aren't you suggesting that?
What do the people of Ukraine get from negotiating with Russia? Why should they trust Russia to uphold an agreement when Russia has already broken every agreement?
Give concrete answers or admit you don't have any.
What does that look like? A dissolution of the russian federation, complete Russian disarmament, ane the imprissonment of Vladimir Putin would stop this. Why isn't Russia offering that? Why aren't you suggesting that?
Give concrete answers or admit you don't have any.
Here's your concrete answer for your concrete answer; The complete dissolution of the federal government of the United States of America and complete balkanization of the country resulting in every state becoming their own country. The complete liquidation of the Armed Forces and the nuclear armaments program of the United States. And the imprisonment of every living American president and federal politician for crimes against humanity.
This and the same actions performed to each and every NATO country is required for world peace.
Why isn't NATO offering that? Why aren't you suggesting this?
I'm not suggesting any thing. I'm asking what the people calling for Ukrainian negotiation are asking for. So far, no answer has been given. Unless this is your actual answer, that Ukraine should enter into negotiations with Russia for the breakup of all NATO states, in which case I question how what Ukraine gets out of that and how Russia would make it happen.
Do you have an actuall suggestion af what Ukraine should negotiate for, and how the resulting treaty should be enforced?
The people of Ukraine get an end to the war. The people of Donbas get to secede from the ethnostate Ukraine has become. Seems better than current conditions
I think actually participating in negotiations and negotiating for regional referendums under non-wartime conditions would be a good idea that would benefit the people of Ukraine, and whatever the imaginary entity of "Ukraine itself" feels about potentially being cut up is irrelevant because countries are not people.
This isn't a suggestion, its a prompt. If this isn't the solution to end the killing, what is? Do you have an answer? What should Ukraine negotiate for?
Because that’s not realistically going to happen and hundreds of thousands more will die before you recognize it.
Unlike you I want the killing to stop, unconditionally. That is my only concern. I don’t give a fuck what country “wins”.
You have conditions for the killing to stop. That’s because you are deranged and lack empathy for the real victims of this war. Instead you abstract your empathy to a fucking nation state.
What do you think, then? What is the realistic thing that Ukraine should negotiate for? And, again, what would make it so that Ukraine could trust that negotiation?
Any promise is worth that? Even the unilateral withdrawal and disarmament of Russia? By Prolonging this conflict to achieve a goal, has Putin lost his humanity? Ending this conflict is as easy as Russia ending this conflict. But ending this conflict doesn't ssem to be worth a Russian withdrawal.
What should Ukraine negotiate for? What do they get beyone Russia doing the thing it should be doing anyway? What should they give up? And how should that be enforced, so that Russia doesn't ignore this treaty like they have every treaty on Ukrainian borders?
If Ukraine wants to negotiate with Russia to team up and exterminate the libs, sure, I’d support that.
The problem is Ukraine doesn’t get to negotiate shit, they only get to do what their NATO handlers will allow, and if you would just do your research you would get a clearer picture of what that is.
Putting aside the factual errors, let's just think about the thrust of your argument for a minute. Wars are ended by diplomacy. You're saying Russia can't honor agreements (nonfactually, but hey). Therefore, this war can never end. Is that really your conclusion? What's your expected endgame?
What should Ukraine negotiate for? What does Ukraine get in exchange for territorial surrender?
So far, Putin has broken and ignored:
If a new treaty were to be negotiated, why would Ukraine expect Putin to follow it? What would be the consequences if he did not?
Putin broke the Minsk Agreements, huh?
Anyone who wants to can go find out the truth of that claim and they will find that it was Ukraine/NATO that broke the agreements which is literally the reason it came to war. This was admitted to openly even by Angela fucking Merkel, who said they only drafted the agreements to buy time for Ukraine to build up more arms and continue antagonizing the Donbas.
The Angela Merkal who urged Ukraine to stop fighting when Russia invaded Crimea? The Angela Merkal who routinely advocated appeasement?
As far as Ukraine breaking the agreement, I assume you mean the accusation of continued shelling? When even the DPR claimed responsibility for fighting as well, claiming Minsk 2 did not apply to Donetsk.
You still haven't answered: what should Ukraine negotiate for? Given the fact that Russia has broken every treaty on Ukrainian borders since 1995, why should Ukraine trust another negotiation?
They should negotiate to stop the mass murder going on.
Some hypothetical war in the future is not worth butchering millions now. That’s deranged thinking - literally ensuring the harm you claim to fear.
Stop thinking of countries as people. Countries are not people. That fallacy leads you to deranged ideas that see so many people die.
What does that look like? A dissolution of the russian federation, complete Russian disarmament, ane the imprissonment of Vladimir Putin would stop this. Why isn't Russia offering that? Why aren't you suggesting that?
What do the people of Ukraine get from negotiating with Russia? Why should they trust Russia to uphold an agreement when Russia has already broken every agreement?
Give concrete answers or admit you don't have any.
Here's your concrete answer for your concrete answer; The complete dissolution of the federal government of the United States of America and complete balkanization of the country resulting in every state becoming their own country. The complete liquidation of the Armed Forces and the nuclear armaments program of the United States. And the imprisonment of every living American president and federal politician for crimes against humanity.
This and the same actions performed to each and every NATO country is required for world peace.
Why isn't NATO offering that? Why aren't you suggesting this?
I'm not suggesting any thing. I'm asking what the people calling for Ukrainian negotiation are asking for. So far, no answer has been given. Unless this is your actual answer, that Ukraine should enter into negotiations with Russia for the breakup of all NATO states, in which case I question how what Ukraine gets out of that and how Russia would make it happen.
Do you have an actuall suggestion af what Ukraine should negotiate for, and how the resulting treaty should be enforced?
do you know what a ceasefire is?
The people of Ukraine get an end to the war. The people of Donbas get to secede from the ethnostate Ukraine has become. Seems better than current conditions
So, the negotiation you think Ukraine should enter in to is a surrender to Russian terms?
I think actually participating in negotiations and negotiating for regional referendums under non-wartime conditions would be a good idea that would benefit the people of Ukraine, and whatever the imaginary entity of "Ukraine itself" feels about potentially being cut up is irrelevant because countries are not people.
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This isn't a suggestion, its a prompt. If this isn't the solution to end the killing, what is? Do you have an answer? What should Ukraine negotiate for?
an end to the fighting
How? There are many ways to do that.
Whats your actual suggestion that Ukraine shoule negotiate for?
Because that’s not realistically going to happen and hundreds of thousands more will die before you recognize it.
Unlike you I want the killing to stop, unconditionally. That is my only concern. I don’t give a fuck what country “wins”.
You have conditions for the killing to stop. That’s because you are deranged and lack empathy for the real victims of this war. Instead you abstract your empathy to a fucking nation state.
What do you think, then? What is the realistic thing that Ukraine should negotiate for? And, again, what would make it so that Ukraine could trust that negotiation?
Trust has nothing to do with it.
If both sides stop shooting and murdering each other, any promise is worth that.
The mechanics are irrelevant. Anyone who would prolong this conflict to achieve some “goal” has lost their humanity.
Any promise is worth that? Even the unilateral withdrawal and disarmament of Russia? By Prolonging this conflict to achieve a goal, has Putin lost his humanity? Ending this conflict is as easy as Russia ending this conflict. But ending this conflict doesn't ssem to be worth a Russian withdrawal.
What should Ukraine negotiate for? What do they get beyone Russia doing the thing it should be doing anyway? What should they give up? And how should that be enforced, so that Russia doesn't ignore this treaty like they have every treaty on Ukrainian borders?
Throwing all the libs in a giant pit would stop this too. Or lining them all up against the wall. My idea is just as reasonable
You think Ukraine should enter into negotiations with Russia to throw all the libs in a pit?
Or do you have an actual suggestion of what Ukraine should negotiate for? What do the people of Ukraine get out af negotiating with Russia?
What guarentees do they get?
If Ukraine wants to negotiate with Russia to team up and exterminate the libs, sure, I’d support that.
The problem is Ukraine doesn’t get to negotiate shit, they only get to do what their NATO handlers will allow, and if you would just do your research you would get a clearer picture of what that is.
If Ukraine doesn't get to negotiate, then why the calls for Ukraine to negotiate?
I'm beating you in a fight. Why don't I offer to give up and blow my dick and balls off while I'm at it?
Floating ridiculous negotiating points reveals how little you care about the actual human consequences of this conflict.
Correct. She has at least a modicum of strategic sense.
I wonder why she resigned when she did anyway……..
Putting aside the factual errors, let's just think about the thrust of your argument for a minute. Wars are ended by diplomacy. You're saying Russia can't honor agreements (nonfactually, but hey). Therefore, this war can never end. Is that really your conclusion? What's your expected endgame?