That's right, folks, it's my third fucking Leslie post of the day and the Leslie posting does not stop. I aspire to be even 1/1000th as based as Leslie was. o7

Up for discussion this week is anything from chapters 3 through 6. These discussion points kinda majorly fucking suck and y'all are free to bully me for them but I'm trying my best here.

  • What did you learn?
  • Was anything eye opening to you?
  • Are there any misconceptions about particular aspects of the trans community that have maybe been torn down?
  • Did anything make you reflect on how you view your own gender identity or expression?
  • Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  • Are there things that brought out intense emotion? (ex: literally all of chapter 5 filled me with miraculously even more hatred for this shithole country)
  • Did you learn anything new about the medical hardships that trans people face? What are your thoughts?
  • Was there anything that really reaffirmed your beliefs as a leftist? - Please, God. If you're there, please strike me down; this is terrible but I just can't stop.

Rereading through this book now being as comfortable in my body as I am and actually paying close attention, it has shaken me to my core. My eyes have been blasted wide open so hard that I'm not even sure how the fuck I even identify anymore and that discomfort has motivated me to try using the pronoun tags to experiment a bit. So uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... yeah. That's something. O_O


This thread will be featured for 24 hours then will remain pinned in !transenby_liberation for the remainder of the week until next Saturday. Rinse and repeat one last time.

original thread
week #1 thread
pdf download
epub download
chapter 1 audiobook - Huge shout out to comrade @futomes for recording these. No words can truly express my appreciation for this. Thank you so much. ❤️
chapter 2 audiobook
chapter 3 audiobook

  • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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    14
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    I am a human being who would rather not be addressed as Ms. or Mr., ma'am or sir. I prefer to use gender-neutral pronouns like sie and hir to describe myself. I am a person who faces almost insurmountable difficulty when instructed to check off an "F" or an "M" box on identification papers. (pg. 1)

    Time passed and experience colored my perceptions of the world. As I grew more comfortable with myself I found a balance, a sense of peace. I am more than male and more than female. I am neither man nor woman, but the circle encompassing both. (pg. 75)

    I think of myself as man and woman, both and neither these days. The world out there sometimes wonders out loud at me. There are a few practical details that sometimes present a challenge. But on the whole, I like being on the bridge. And even when I am having trouble with it that day, I know it’s where I belong. That’s good – knowing that. You can write the rules for yourself, and change them. You can walk in this world, harming no one. There really is room for everyone to be. People are sometimes afraid of me and I hope to calm their fear. The only way for sure to kill the fear that someone may walk through your walls is to knock your walls down. (pg. 77)

    I've been thinking about the page one quote since first bringing up the idea for the group reading over a month ago and why it is that I feel such difficulty in choosing. I really don't fit squarely into either one and that's fine. Some days I feel like identifying as female just doesn't feel right, but I'm not at odds with medically transitioning - I'm insanely comfortable and confident in my skin actually.

    I've turned out really fucking feminine and am at a point where even randos address me with female gendered language voluntarily but it still feels... weird. I thought I would've adjusted by now but I only feel like I've escaped the confines of one box that I fucking hated and hastily moved to the other without any consideration for anything else because that's all I knew at the time.

    Lately that high of "wowee I pass and I'm lowkey a baddy - time to be your standard fem trans gal and raise some hell" has been rapidly fading as I grow more and more comfortable in my skin and I'm coming back and telling myself like, "now hold on, this feels cool and all but something still seems out of place". I can't think of better descriptions for how I feel overall than the last two passages, I just feel like neither or like a blend. I enjoy being "on the bridge", haha. The past couple months I've even found an obnoxious level of comfort in presenting in a more femininely androgynous way, if that makes sense.

    This is as far as I've gotten with these thoughts. Don't know what to do with all of this information yet, but you can rest assured I'll use ChapoChat to diarypost about it when I figure it out. Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk.

  • Thordros [he/him, comrade/them]
    hexbear
    14
    4 years ago

    Is there an audiobook version of this I can listen to? I want to learn more about my comrades, but I'm literally pretending to be two teachers right now because I refuse to put my kids in danger by sending them to a school that 100% has had multiple COVID-19 outbreaks.

    Something I can listen to while I'm in the shower or the shitter? I'll even pay for it. I'm terminally ignorant about trans _______ (fill in the blank here, I'm a dumbass), but I want to learn.

      • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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        4 years ago

        Uh holy shit this is fucking sick and sounds really, really good! You have a very soothing voice too, haha! Thank you so so much! There were several people asking for an audiobook! If you keep making them, I think I could figure out a way to keep this community event going for an extra week or so to offer group discussions with those who are listening along with your recordings, if you don't mind me featuring your content! I think it could be really helpful educating people here!

    • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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      4 years ago

      Unfortunately I don't think there are any audiobooks for it, I looked up and down for one. If it's any consolation, it reads really quick. I'm an extremely slow reader and blew through the 50 pages in a few hours with Seinfeld on in the background, haha.

  • Gay_Wrath [fae/faer]
    hexbear
    12
    4 years ago

    Quotes from this week i liked:

    On gender:

    If we hear someone described to us who we've never met, we've already unconsciously made assumptions about that person based on the pronoun used to describe them.

    If you assure the world you're not like us, then you've just locked yourself into having to super-conform to gender roles and stereotypes.

    On Solidarity:

    I believe that the liberation of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and trans people cannot be won without fighting back shoulder to shoulder.

    Mixed in the blood we shed when we fight back are all the elements of who we are.

    Fucking love that one. Everything we bring to our shared fight against oppression is the mixed in with our own uniqueness - to oppress it or try to conform is cheating both yourself and your comrades.

    What unites us is not a common sexuality or experiences or identities or self-expression. It's that we are up against a common enemy.

    When people from different walks of life find themselves together in a collective protest, later they remember who stood tall with them when times were tough. That's how genuine solidarity is formed.

    When we allow ourselves to be split along lines of oppression, we always lose.

    "Let us win our demands first" they plead, "and then your demands will be more easily won later on." That's a trickle-down theory of reform.

    I'm 100% gonna use trickle down theory of reform now for stupidpol losers, thank you comrade Leslie :sankara-salute:

    • qublics [they/them,she/her]
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      9
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      4 years ago

      What unites us [...] It’s that we are up against a common enemy.

      I very much disagree with "enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic, so is worth clarifying what Leslie meant with the longer quote:

      But we’re not taking away your identity. No one’s sex reassignment or fluidity of gender threatens your right to self-identity and self-expression.
      On the contrary, our struggle bolsters your right to your identity. My right to be me is tied with a thousand threads to your right to be you.

      We’re not trying to barricade the road you travel; We’re trying to open up more avenues to self-definition, and identity and love and sexuality.
      That’s a wonderful development for everybody.

      What unites us is not a common sexuality or experiences or identities or self-expression. It’s that we are up against a common enemy.

      So that "common enemy" here refers not to some group of people but rather opposition against "your right to be you".
      or as I personally would like to put it: our common enemy is opposition to self-identity, self-expression, and bodily sovereignty.
      and that is an enemy we share with anyone that wants to exist or explore outside such restrictive norms.

      • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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        4 years ago

        Great clarification! I think it's worth noting that this concept could be further expanded upon by going back to literally the very beginning of the book. Currently, your "right to choose" who you are is a very small range of expression that society has deemed appropriate for the two narrow boxes that it tries to squeeze every human into. That reality drastically shapes a person's world as they age and continue to scarf down the societal expectations that people have of them based on sex and gender. Trans liberation seeks to break people away from the gender penitentiary that confines their right to self-expression whether they are trans or not so they may be free to do with their bodies and identity as they see fit. :)

        Passage - pg. 5-6

        Our struggle will also help expose some of the harmful myths about what it means to be a woman or a man that that compartmentalized and distorted you life, as well as mine. Trans liberation has meaning for you - no matter how you define or express your sex or your gender.

        [...]

        And if you do not identify as transgender or transsexual or intersexual, your life is diminished by our oppression as well. Your own choices as a man or a woman are sharply curtailed. your individual journey to express yourself is shunted into one of two deeply carved ruts, and the social baggage you are handed is already packed.

        So the defense of each individual's right to control their own body, and to explore the path of self-expression, enhances your own freedom to discover more about yourself and your potentialities. This movement will give you more room to breathe - to be yourself. To discover on a deeper level what it means to be your self.

    • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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      4 years ago

      I fucking lost it at: "But those of us who have been trickled on in the past are not impressed with that strategy." Just... Damn. That's a fucking haymaker of a comeback for a shitty ass strategy of reform. That's just so hard hitting, haha.

    • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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      11
      4 years ago

      My hope is that people just reading the comments will get the gist and have all the bomb takeaways even if they were too busy or too lib to participate, haha.

  • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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    4 years ago

    I found this passage to be very personally elevating and inspirational. Some days I do feel like I really know what I'm doing with my life and really know who I am and who I want to be, but there are other days where I just have no clue. However, every day is a new opportunity to continue improving upon myself and figuring out who I want to be and how to get there. People may not like who I am becoming or who I am now and that's fine, I'm on my own walk of life. Despite the heartache and hardship, these last three years since coming out have been the best years of my life and I wouldn't trade them for the world. I'm proud of myself for the things I've overcome to get where I am now and for continuing to fight today. It may not be the easiest route in life, but it's one that I'm stronger and better for having taken.

    Passage - pg. 76:

    My life today is very different than yesterday There are days when I know where I am going and days where the doubts overwhelm. All in all I am a better person because I found my own way in the world. It may not be the same as yours and it certainly is not better than yours, but it is the right way for me.

  • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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    4 years ago

    On the topic of past social unrest, I found this passage to still hold true to this day with modern movements and protests that we are seeing today. "NOOOOOOOO you can't get militant and violent to demand justice, you have to be civil and negotiate for your rights... like civilized people! The key to achieving socio-economic equality isn't to protest, riot, or strike, it's to vote! Just vote for your rights!" We hear it time and time again and nothing ever gets done. The movements are cooped by libs and only performative theatre is offered as a form of restitution. This book was written 22 years ago about Leslie's experiences even decades before that too. The quip about being trickled on killed me and filled me with rage knowing this is still occurring to this day.

    Passage - pg 76:

    What is the most effective strategy to forge a fight-back movement today? Should we deny our relationship to each other based on relative difference and try to place an arm’s distance between us? It sounds absurd. And yet there are some lesbians and gay men, I know, who fear that their “winnable” demands for legislative reforms or acceptance will be lost if they stand up for the rights of trans people.

    “Let us win our demands first,” they plead, “and then your demands will be more easily won later on.” That’s a trickle-down theory of reform. But those of us who have been tricked on in the past are not impressed with that strategy.

    When a young social movement breaks down societal closet doors and floods into the streets, it’s leading activists suddenly begin to get advice from those in power who were never “friendly” before. These advisors urge leaders to send in their “best-dressed, most articulate spokespeople” (code words for white and middle- to upper-classed) to negotiate for progressive legislation and other reforms. But, they counsel, “Keep it to a single, simple demand. And disassociate with those who are too angry and too militant.”

  • TransComrade69 [she/her,ze/hir]
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    3
    4 years ago

    Finally caught up. Better late than never, I suppose.

    On unity and solidarity, I found these passages extremely inspirational and with them also a sense of pride for the perseverance in times of even extreme adversity and willingness to fight back to be themselves that LGBT people have shown throughout history and even in current day. I'm proud to be a part of the LGBT community and I admire the community's constant readiness and willingness to ally with those who are also oppressed and fighting for societal equality.

    Passage #1 - pg. 96-97:

    I asked her [Puerto Rican drag queen Sylvia Rivera – a combatant at Stonewall], “Were you fighting police brutality? We you fighting racism? Or for your right to be gay? Did you fight because so few of the queens could produce the military draft cards government agents demanded that night? Or because so many of you were homeless and hungry and embattled on the streets?”

    Sylvia replied with quiet dignity, “We were fighting for our lives.”


    Passage #2 - pg. 104-105:

    The lesbian, gay, bi, and trans communities are natural allies. Throughout the last decade in the United States we have been stronger wherever we have formed coalitions – on campuses, in work places, and in political protests.

    Everyone who is under the gun of reaction and economic violence is a potential ally. What an opportunity lesbian, gay, bi, and trans people have to play a leading role in the mass movements that must be organized to meet these attacks head-on. Our communities bring with us the lessons of militant struggle.

    We can develop multi-issue coalitions with everyone who’s struggling for social equality and economic justice. When people from different walks of life find themselves together in a collective protest, later they remember who stood tall with them when times were tough. That’s how genuine solidarity is forged.

    An injury to one is an injury to all! When we allow ourselves to be split along lines of oppression, we always lose. But when we put forward a collective list of demands together, and fight to defend each other from attacks, we frequently win.

  • D61 [any]
    hexbear
    2
    4 years ago

    Well... just about everything that I highlighted has been talked about or mentioned. Nice feeling.

    I liked the little nods to history that started on page 102. Giving some historical touch stones leading up to the Stonewall Riots that, if they even were mentioned in other histories, might not have been coded as relating to gender and sexuality liberation.

    Also starting on page 102 the paragraph that talks about how working on a single demand or for a single group within a coalition and how its kinda shitty leading to ...

    This is an old tactic. When I was a teenager involved in factory struggles in Buffalo, New Your, management sent similar messages through emissaries to union activists. But it was divisive... ... But when we allowed ourselves to be split along lines of oppression, we always lost.

    The tactics used against the working class are the same as those used against people oppressed because of their identity. And a solution against those tactics is also the same. Solidarity.

    About the only thing revelatory that I've come to so far, is just how mindbogglingly complicated gender identity is, the more I'm exposed to the various intricacies less clear it all is.

    Also, sucks that this post got comment bombed and you had to deal with that, also realizing that I saw the post title "Where did that bring you..." and totally quit reading the rest to realize that this is where the mega thread was.

    whistles

    You hit a certain age and the "boomer" comes at you fast.