you asked for an ideal outcome. and that is a very practical outcome.
but fine, ill play ur game. a realistic and practical outcome that i prefer would be Russia preventing Ukraine from entering NATO, limiting the ability for the global empire to conquer everything
Lol all signatories wiped their asses with minsk 2, while Putin played stupid by pretending he had nothing to do with LPR and DPR.
Once Putin realized he wasn't going to get his pro-russian dickriders into Ukraine he literally invoked Godwin's Law and invaded Ukraine because "muh nazis".
Yea I can't believe he called them nazis just because they're wearing black sun patches and painting iron crosses on their tanks and freely admitting their nazis.
enough that even the Western media can't take a photo of a Ukrainian soldier without including fascist symbols somewhere in the photo. also enough that motherfucking Bandera is essentially worshipped as a state deity
I did know. That why I remember the Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine's territorial sovereignty was guaranteed by Russia in exchange for their nukes. I wonder why y'all didn't bring that up?
The Budapest memorandum??? You have got to be kidding me. A 30-year old document written shortly after the collapse of the USSR is somehow worthy of discussion? And it's Russia that should be critiqued for breaching it? Euromaidan was a coup of the Ukrainian government led by far right militias funded by the United States Department, which then installed their own puppet government with their picked stooges. This government then continually shelled another russian-speaking part of Ukraine for 8 years (in spite of other treaties I might add). The Budapest memorandum was already trampled by the United States and then Ukraine itself.
You got a response to this upthread that you didn't reply to. Maybe address @Egon@hexbear.net before repeating yourself.
this was 5 years later. Ukraine wouldnt need an alliance if they didnt consistently violate the Minsk agreements by bombing civilians in the DPR and LPR, giving Russia a reasonable casus belli
here is the info abt civilian bombing and here are some other war crimes.
recognizing the DPR and LPR would seriously escalate tensions between Russia and Ukraine/NATO. Russia did, however, maintain informal relations with them, including providing aid. DPR and LPR invited Russia to liberate them from Ukraine. you have no idea what revisionist means if you think thats what im doing here. Russia absolutely had a justified casus belli
recognizing the DPR and LPR would seriously escalate tensions between Russia and Ukraine/NATO
That's why he did it the day before invading. Putin was hoping his separatists in DPR and LPR could weaken Ukraine without getting his hands dirty. When he saw that wasn't working, he got involved.
DPR and LPR invited Russia to liberate them from Ukraine.
Yes, that's kinda what pro-Russian separatists are supposed to do. Next you'll tell me CPC members in Taiwan want one country, two systems.
Oh boy can you start another dunk thread on this so I can flex my myopic, limited understanding of complex socio-political situations and make another fool of myself?
Because my answers won't matter. I'm wholly uneducated on this topic and my point for being here was to act in bad faith and kick the beehive.
After reading so many good faith responses from the posters here, I rightfully feel like a dumbass so I'm tucking tail and trying to diffuse the situation.
I am literally the "joke's on them I was only pretending" meme, and I'm really not proud of it.
Sure that would be ideal, but let's talk about realistic and practical outcomes.
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you asked for an ideal outcome. and that is a very practical outcome.
but fine, ill play ur game. a realistic and practical outcome that i prefer would be Russia preventing Ukraine from entering NATO, limiting the ability for the global empire to conquer everything
if Putin never invaded, Ukraine wouldn't be trying to join NATO
This is some strong "stop hitting yourself" energy
And if ukraine hadn't violated rhe Minsk agreement Russia wouldn't have done that.
Fun fact did you know there's history before the last 2 years?
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Lol all signatories wiped their asses with minsk 2, while Putin played stupid by pretending he had nothing to do with LPR and DPR.
Once Putin realized he wasn't going to get his pro-russian dickriders into Ukraine he literally invoked Godwin's Law and invaded Ukraine because "muh nazis".
Yea I can't believe he called them nazis just because they're wearing black sun patches and painting iron crosses on their tanks and freely admitting their nazis.
How many nazis are in Ukraine?
At least three
Oh, better invade the country then
Don't worry America is next
enough that even the Western media can't take a photo of a Ukrainian soldier without including fascist symbols somewhere in the photo. also enough that motherfucking Bandera is essentially worshipped as a state deity
I did know. That why I remember the Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine's territorial sovereignty was guaranteed by Russia in exchange for their nukes. I wonder why y'all didn't bring that up?
You got a response to this upthread that you didn't reply to. Maybe address @Egon@hexbear.net before repeating yourself.
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Happy to help haha.
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that’s funny bc this western source shows that in 2019, Ukraine amended their constitution to include a commitment to join NATO and the EU
Yeah, because in 2014, half their country was occupied by a foreign invader lol.
Oh no my neighbor is seeking alliances after I annexed their shit, how conniving of them!
this was 5 years later. Ukraine wouldnt need an alliance if they didnt consistently violate the Minsk agreements by bombing civilians in the DPR and LPR, giving Russia a reasonable casus belli
Time isn't linear silly
Proof?
Putin didn't even recognize DPR and LPR until the day before he invaded Ukraine. This is some concentrated revisionist history.
here is the info abt civilian bombing and here are some other war crimes.
recognizing the DPR and LPR would seriously escalate tensions between Russia and Ukraine/NATO. Russia did, however, maintain informal relations with them, including providing aid. DPR and LPR invited Russia to liberate them from Ukraine. you have no idea what revisionist means if you think thats what im doing here. Russia absolutely had a justified casus belli
That's why he did it the day before invading. Putin was hoping his separatists in DPR and LPR could weaken Ukraine without getting his hands dirty. When he saw that wasn't working, he got involved.
Yes, that's kinda what pro-Russian separatists are supposed to do. Next you'll tell me CPC members in Taiwan want one country, two systems.
Sorry I'm still not seeing it
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Oh boy can you start another dunk thread on this so I can flex my myopic, limited understanding of complex socio-political situations and make another fool of myself?
nobody should be getting as owned as you are twice in 24 hours, that's just cruel
Not a bad idea tbh, you're incredibly uninformed and that's what we thrive on.
You suffer so other people can learn
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Minor detail, but I think it was 6 days before the invasion.
split the difference, three days? He officially recognized LPR and DPR on 21 Feb and invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb
Ah, I thought he recognized them, declared their annexation three days later, and invaded three days after that.
https://files.catbox.moe/dmdkbs.mp4
???
I'll flip that one back on you, what's your realistic and practical outcome?
Implementation of the Minsk agreements and ceasefire in Donbass?
Referendums in the region to find out what the people in the occupied territories actually want?
Return of land to the collectives that had it ripped from them after the war heated up?
Or are you just jingoistic and care about the territorial holdings of nation states that don't represent the will of their people?
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Because my answers won't matter. I'm wholly uneducated on this topic and my point for being here was to act in bad faith and kick the beehive.
After reading so many good faith responses from the posters here, I rightfully feel like a dumbass so I'm tucking tail and trying to diffuse the situation.
I am literally the "joke's on them I was only pretending" meme, and I'm really not proud of it.
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We both know the answer, but I hope they respond and show their whole ass. Fucking warmongering scum.
Ok so ukraine winnings off the table.
I guess in that case cede the territory Russia captured and stop sending thousands of conscripts to die for nothing.