Note: I'm just a white guy who read the Autobiography of Malcolm X when I was younger and did some additional reading. If I've got any details wrong or I'm wildly offbase please call me out. I have thrown around the Yakub bit myself. When a Hexbear called out the bit as racist I had to do some self-crit about it. Here's a very short explainer to give some backstory on where the bit came from.
The very short version
- Yakub is a figure in Nation of Islam mythology derived from the Hebrew patriarch Jacob
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- In NOI mythology Yakub used eugenics to create white people from ancient black people
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- due to the horrible methods Yakub used and his evil intentions white people are incapable of empathy and compassion and can only do evil
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- 4Chan found out that the NOI exists a few years ago
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- 4Chan created the (CW: 4chan bullshit)
spoiler
"We were kings" meme, usually with "we were kings" deliberately misspelled and accompanied by racist imagery
. This was inspired by both NOI beliefs and Hotep beliefs
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- At some point the Chapos found out about the 4Chan meme and began ironically adopting the NOI position in response, referring to white people as Yakubian devils or variations of that
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- It stuck around on Hexbear
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- It's not appropriate for white people to be making jokes about a black religious and political movement
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- The NOI mythology was created during the 1930s when eugenics was a popular concept. It inverts contemporary white "race science", essentially reversing the roles of white people and black people under a similar, religiously influenced psuedoscientific narrative.
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- The NOI call themselves Muslims. Their religious beliefs are a very idiosyncratic mixture of Christian, Muslim, and original beliefs. They were not closely related to Sunni or Shi'a Islam
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- When the founder of the NOI died in 1975 his son and successor disbanded the organization and re-formed it. The new organization went through several names before settling on the American Society of Muslims. The American Society of Muslims rejected most NOI beliefs, becoming much closer to mainstream Sunni Islam
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- After the NOI was disbanded Louis Farrakhan and a splinter group formed a continuation of the NOI. This sect is notorious for it's racial superiority ideology, anti-semitism, homophobia, and generally being reactionary jerks
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- No one really likes the NOI. They have little mainstream support but continue to have some cultural influence
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- Trivia - Louis Farrakhan probably ordered the assassination of el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz, also known as Malcolm X
I asked about this in the federation thread and was pretty annoyed that no one could say exactly why referencing Yakub is racist, including the mod who announced it. A fairly common meme on here is all of a sudden being specifically targeted for removal with zero explanation is weird. So I appreciate the attempt to explain, but I'll be honest, I'm still not sure it makes sense to me
After the NOI was disbanded Louis Farrakhan and a splinter group formed a continuation of the NOI. This sect is notorious for it's racial superiority ideology, anti-semitism, homophobia, and generally being reactionary jerks
This is all true, NoI suck, but we have a lot of memes on here with problematic sources that have been laundered through a few layers of irony
It's not appropriate for white people to be making jokes about a black religious and political movement
Is this it? Is this the actual official reason that Yakub references are supposedly racist? If there are black comrades who feel uncomfortable with this, then I'm willing to go along with it.
Idk, I don't want people to think that I want to die on this hill or anything. I'm not even sure I've ever used the meme myself. It just rubs me the wrong way when something is declared outside the bounds of acceptable discourse without any attempt to educate or reach consensus
I think OP is just trying to make a point that making fun of the NoI concept of Yakub can come close to the racist "we were kings" meme in a "isn't it funny that these black people think they are the superior ones" way.
That... actually makes a lot of sense. I always thought of the meme purely as making fun of white people rather than being directed at NoI
I think it might be taken like "bleach demon" where it isn't saying anything about the theology of demons but are simply using it as a sort of literary analogy.
Is this it? Is this the actual official reason that Yakub references are supposedly racist? If there are black comrades who feel uncomfortable with this, then I'm willing to go along with it.
I'm white but there's a little more that stands out to me about why it isn't appropriate: We're talking about the biggest black nationalist movement of its time, which involved Malcolm X among others. To characterize the NOI mainly as funny is to ignore what it promised to black people, as well as the position black people were in for that promise to be worth supporting. By extension, this characterization also ignores the people who supported it, or worse, dismisses them as gullible at best
A couple other points: the NOI is much smaller in membership than many people think, at 50,000 members.
Much of this rank-and-file is relatively boring people with strange beliefs, which could be said about many religious people.
While anti-whiteness and antisemitism is purportedly a “core belief” of the NOI, Mainstream Christian denominations defended slavery and segregation, and antisemitism was a core belief of Catholicism at least until Vatican II, and many Protestant and Evangelical denominations maintain a supercessionist theology (that the New Testament fully and universally replaced the commandments of the Torah) which is itself a religious form of antisemitism.
Protestant and Evangelical denominations maintain a supercessionist theology (that the New Testament fully and universally replaced the commandments of the Torah) which is itself a religious form of antisemitism.
This feels like saying they are Islamophobic for rejecting the divine authenticity of the Quran. Granted, many of them are Islamophobic and antisemitic (evangelicals especially), but for other reasons
yeah it's not antisemitic to religiously disagree on a point with judaism that's just not being Jewish
Having doubts or qualms about a point within Judaism is in fact a very Jewish thing to do. "Struggling with God" and all that.
I think what @SteamedHamberder@hexbear.net is referring to is churches that have the doctrine that the Torah is incomplete without, and inferior to, the New Testament.
yes the later point isn't anti-semitic though that's just being a different religion
do any Catholics follow the dietary laws of the Books of Moses?
Peter and Paul expressly permitted eating unkosher foods in the NT, and “Judaizing” sects were deemed heretical by some early church councils.
iirc abig issue to convincing most Greek would-be converts was circumcision and some of the move away from the Halakhah was motivated by the need to convert Greeks who wouldn't get cut. But then it's been 20 years since my early Christian religion classes so correct me if I'm off base.
I do wonder how much of it was a result of the upheaval around the destruction of the second Temple and the development of Rabbinical Judaism that was going on at around that time. From what I understand it was an incredibly turbulent time in the Hebrew world. I can see a small, extremely heterodox splinter sect like the early Christians seeking to distinguish themselves from the emerging Rabbinical movement.
I should really start back in to learning about the first century. It's an entire century of weeks where centuries happen and so much of the following 2,000 years were shaped by the upheavals of that century.
hey frank the idea that black people were kings and queens while often said by hoteps is not even close to "coming from hoteps" like every black person over the age of 40 says this unironically usually on facebook. 4chaner were making fun of regular black people trying to express pride imo. small thing I just dont want any white people seeing a regular ass meme and thinking "is this a dogwhistle"
The 4chan bullshit you refer to predates the memefication of Yakub by at least 4 years I'd say, I don't know if I'd tie their origins together like that.
There May have been operatives in Newark Mosque 25 that pushed the leadership in that direction. The Netflix documentary on who killed Malcolm X was pretty good, but only scratched the surface.
It's a really convoluted part of COINTELPRO adjacent history. It's widely believed that Farrakhan collaborated with the feds in ordering the assassination of el-Shabazz. Several NOI members went up for the assassination. Later the feds accused el-Shabazz' daughter of involvement in a plot to kill Farrakhan in retaliation, but that is a sketchy accusation to say the very least. iirc her plea deal maintained her innocence while "accepting responsibility for her actions", which is the kind of kafka shit you only see in judicial systems like the US.
Fay for making me learn the noi lore then telling me I can’t make fun of it.
This is a huge loss for posting.
E: Ty for explaining though. Now I know.
It's rich how many 4chan nazis use that bigoted mocking summary of the NOI when so much of their own ideology can be summed up with (CW: racism invoked, but reversed on the racists)
spoiler
"WE WUZ VI-KANGZ."
Don't the chapos live in New York? While I'm not American and have never been to the country, I've seen and read news articles about Black Israelites harrassing people in New York, including being antisemitic towards Jewish people. So if anything, the Yakub stuff probably comes from that, or weird twitter stuff.
nope, completely different hate group (they also hate eachother), they are way more common I think, got some in my family, I dont associate with them.
At some point the Chapos found out about the 4Chan meme and began ironically adopting the NOI position in response, referring to white people as Yakubian devils or variations of that
Wait, we were being ironic? Fuck guys, you gotta send me a memo about these things.
Ish? idk it's one of those terminal ironic poisoning things where I think most of us were being ironically serious ironically. Idk.
