Ukraine told critics of the pace of its three-month-old counteroffensive to "shut up" on Thursday, the sharpest signal yet of Kyiv's frustration at leaks from Western officials that say its forces are advancing too slowly.
Very sound argument. After all it was the civil liberals, western anarchists and debate perverts that convinced Hitler in the market place of ideas that invading Poland was "bad vibes" and so he killed himself from that hard own.
Or was it something else? Nah, after all reality is always the thing you imagine it to be.
Your comment makes me want to see a fan cut of Captain America where he just gets the shit beaten out of him and his limbs ripped off and he dies and every five minutes "I can do this all day" but it never turns around and he fucking dies. He never appears to make a come back. He just keeps getting his ass kicked and never stops saying the line. Except it's not his ass getting kicked, it's some random children he took off the street and forced to be child soldiers or he'd kill them. And he just keeps saying "I can do this all day" while tens of thousands of people keep getting killed and not once for any reason or goal that progress is made towards. Just tens of thousands of dead bodies every month. "I can do this all day" except he's not even there he's on an internet forum. It's still tens of thousand of dead bodies but not his. And he'll never give up. But he'll never get any closer to winning. Just death to countless people who aren't him. He can do it all day. And every time he says it you can tell he feels really cool and badass. He's Captain America. He doesn't quit just because it looks bad.
Do you think it is realistic that Russia will unilaterally pull out? The war will end when Russia leaves, but Russia isn't going to leave until they are pushed out, negotiations are had, or Ukraine is destroyed. The first possibility is becoming increasingly more unlikely, and the last is something that nobody should want
That leaves negotiations. I think Ukraine should come to the table while they still have some leverage, which is decreasing every week that they throw their men into the meat grinder without meaningful gains.
It doesn’t leave only negotiations. Russia tried for 10+ years in Afghanistan. The US the same, there and in Vietnam. There is such as giving up and going home. That’s the “win” a small state can inflict on a large one. I don’t think that’s where Ukraine and Russia is headed, but there’s a quick for Ukraine and a slow “win” for Ukraine.
Wait, so your ideal is instead of negotiations, in the same vein as Afghanistan, Ukraine experiences this horrible war for another 9 years and then becomes a state ruled by the fighters involved in the war with the most extremist far right ideology rule it as a theocracy? To be clear that ideology in this case is Nazism.
You don't sound like an ally of the Ukrainian people.
You do realise that it was Ukraine who refuesed to negotiate and not the other way around? Also, mind reminding me who it is that is performing a failing counteroffensive?
aw the red fascist move, a classic. you are clearly very smart. Ukraine is also guilty, it could leave the donbass and crimea, or at least given them proper autonomy within the country. Thats all they had to do. But no they chose to do a genocide and now we're here.
Why is it Russia's job to police Ukraine? Shouldn't it be Ukrainians who aren't Nazis instead of a foreign occupational force? I thought occupations by foreign powers were bad?
I don't deny that Russia has reasons to step in, but what I am saying is that ideologically, I don't want to advocate for or normalize the idea that some countries deserve to have "spheres of influence" over others. It's about consistency - the US isn't entitled to its sphere of influence in Latin America, so why would I oppose one sphere of influence and not another?
It was justifiable for Russian speakers in the Donbas to protest the removal of legal recognition and support for the Russian language, which is undeniably an injustice inflicted upon them. But that also means its an injustice for Putin to insinuate that Ukraine wasn't a real country before the Bolsheviks, or that Ukrainian identity and heritage in the rest of the country are intrinsically tied to Russia.
Honest question, what do you mean by "bad"? Morally bad? When has that ever been a meaningful factor in the security perogatives of a state? Also, how is it an occupation when the DPR and LPR are fighting alongaide the RF as allies? Do you still consider the Donbas part of Ukraine? I'm trying to understand your position here because (and I mean this clinically, not as an insult) despite your pfp, you've been saying a lot of stuff in this thread that would seem to come from a more standard liberal perspective.
Honest question, what do you mean by "bad"? Morally bad?
Bad in the sense that they violate people's right to self-determination.
When has that ever been a meaningful factor in the security perogatives of a state?
It hasn't, that's the issue. When have the security prerogatives of a state ever been a consideration for communists or anarchists?
International relations have long been governed by a system of bad-faith actors who go and make all these rules about national sovereignty and the theoretical equality it brings between nation-states only to set out to immediately try and undermine it. The US is really good at maintaining plausible deniability in the eyes of much of its populace and the world, at least initially (see: Iraq WMDs, the continued use of the Monroe Doctrine well into the present day, etc).
despite your pfp, you've been saying a lot of stuff in this thread that would seem to come from a more standard liberal perspective.
This is just because on this specific issue, I am not in agreement with what I perceive as reflexive support for Russia. I supported the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan, regardless of the immediate material consequences to Afghanistanians who opposed the Taliban, so I support the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, despite there being similar reasons to advocate for staying, from the perspective of the Russian/Ukrainian rebel and their supporters. I've also been trying to find the more shitty liberal takes to reply to them too.
Also, how is it an occupation when the DPR and LPR are fighting alongside the RF as allies
Well, if security prerogatives of States are to be considered, Ukraine's internationally recognized borders have been violated by another sovereign power. If they're not, then only the positions occupied after February 23rd of 2022 would be under occupation.
For sure there’s a real risk Ukraine isn’t winning this war. But there’s never been a war where there’s absolute certainty one side will win, until we get to the “downfall” times.
Only after being rebuffed by a West more interested in appeasement throughout the 1930s. Stalin knew the USSR was ideologically opposed to both the Liberal Democracies and the Fascists of the time, but couldn't fight both should it have come to that, so he was looking for allies or at the least, a non-aggression pact.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is also not the Tripartite Pact, which is what created the Axis powers.
Stop, just please, stop.
What are you trying to say?
I want this war to stop.
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You fucking donkie
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theres the hostility those pesky hexbears show all the time
oh wait
I too would like your prediction on how this war will end
How will this war end then?
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Do you have like a little piece of notebook paper you keep track of all your pending dunks on? You do the rounds every few hours? o7 I am in awe
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No, I do not support the fascist regime of Ukraine. Why would I follow their leader?
Very sound argument. After all it was the civil liberals, western anarchists and debate perverts that convinced Hitler in the market place of ideas that invading Poland was "bad vibes" and so he killed himself from that hard own.
Or was it something else? Nah, after all reality is always the thing you imagine it to be.
Maybe copium is a bit like health pipes?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=Z7yYxJgHRMY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
And if Ukraine can't win militarily (which they clearly can't), how does that happen?
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This article from a western source is literally about the failure of the big counter offensive
How good is your reading comprehension you fucking idiot, or are you just following headlines and clapping like a cymbal monkey toy?
Your comment makes me want to see a fan cut of Captain America where he just gets the shit beaten out of him and his limbs ripped off and he dies and every five minutes "I can do this all day" but it never turns around and he fucking dies. He never appears to make a come back. He just keeps getting his ass kicked and never stops saying the line. Except it's not his ass getting kicked, it's some random children he took off the street and forced to be child soldiers or he'd kill them. And he just keeps saying "I can do this all day" while tens of thousands of people keep getting killed and not once for any reason or goal that progress is made towards. Just tens of thousands of dead bodies every month. "I can do this all day" except he's not even there he's on an internet forum. It's still tens of thousand of dead bodies but not his. And he'll never give up. But he'll never get any closer to winning. Just death to countless people who aren't him. He can do it all day. And every time he says it you can tell he feels really cool and badass. He's Captain America. He doesn't quit just because it looks bad.
Do you think it is realistic that Russia will unilaterally pull out? The war will end when Russia leaves, but Russia isn't going to leave until they are pushed out, negotiations are had, or Ukraine is destroyed. The first possibility is becoming increasingly more unlikely, and the last is something that nobody should want
That leaves negotiations. I think Ukraine should come to the table while they still have some leverage, which is decreasing every week that they throw their men into the meat grinder without meaningful gains.
It doesn’t leave only negotiations. Russia tried for 10+ years in Afghanistan. The US the same, there and in Vietnam. There is such as giving up and going home. That’s the “win” a small state can inflict on a large one. I don’t think that’s where Ukraine and Russia is headed, but there’s a quick for Ukraine and a slow “win” for Ukraine.
Wait, so your ideal is instead of negotiations, in the same vein as Afghanistan, Ukraine experiences this horrible war for another 9 years and then becomes a state ruled by the fighters involved in the war with the most extremist far right ideology rule it as a theocracy? To be clear that ideology in this case is Nazism.
You don't sound like an ally of the Ukrainian people.
Yeah why negotiate now while we still have hundreds of thousands of lives to throw into the meat grinder.
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You do realise that it was Ukraine who refuesed to negotiate and not the other way around? Also, mind reminding me who it is that is performing a failing counteroffensive?
Putin is literally the one trying to negotiate
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aw the red fascist move, a classic. you are clearly very smart. Ukraine is also guilty, it could leave the donbass and crimea, or at least given them proper autonomy within the country. Thats all they had to do. But no they chose to do a genocide and now we're here.
And leave the people of the Donbas republics to be massacred by Ukranian Nazis? Idk, sounds like what a fascist would want.
Why is it Russia's job to police Ukraine? Shouldn't it be Ukrainians who aren't Nazis instead of a foreign occupational force? I thought occupations by foreign powers were bad?
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I don't deny that Russia has reasons to step in, but what I am saying is that ideologically, I don't want to advocate for or normalize the idea that some countries deserve to have "spheres of influence" over others. It's about consistency - the US isn't entitled to its sphere of influence in Latin America, so why would I oppose one sphere of influence and not another?
It was justifiable for Russian speakers in the Donbas to protest the removal of legal recognition and support for the Russian language, which is undeniably an injustice inflicted upon them. But that also means its an injustice for Putin to insinuate that Ukraine wasn't a real country before the Bolsheviks, or that Ukrainian identity and heritage in the rest of the country are intrinsically tied to Russia.
Honest question, what do you mean by "bad"? Morally bad? When has that ever been a meaningful factor in the security perogatives of a state? Also, how is it an occupation when the DPR and LPR are fighting alongaide the RF as allies? Do you still consider the Donbas part of Ukraine? I'm trying to understand your position here because (and I mean this clinically, not as an insult) despite your pfp, you've been saying a lot of stuff in this thread that would seem to come from a more standard liberal perspective.
Bad in the sense that they violate people's right to self-determination.
It hasn't, that's the issue. When have the security prerogatives of a state ever been a consideration for communists or anarchists?
International relations have long been governed by a system of bad-faith actors who go and make all these rules about national sovereignty and the theoretical equality it brings between nation-states only to set out to immediately try and undermine it. The US is really good at maintaining plausible deniability in the eyes of much of its populace and the world, at least initially (see: Iraq WMDs, the continued use of the Monroe Doctrine well into the present day, etc).
This is just because on this specific issue, I am not in agreement with what I perceive as reflexive support for Russia. I supported the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan, regardless of the immediate material consequences to Afghanistanians who opposed the Taliban, so I support the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine, despite there being similar reasons to advocate for staying, from the perspective of the Russian/Ukrainian rebel and their supporters. I've also been trying to find the more shitty liberal takes to reply to them too.
Well, if security prerogatives of States are to be considered, Ukraine's internationally recognized borders have been violated by another sovereign power. If they're not, then only the positions occupied after February 23rd of 2022 would be under occupation.
You don't make any sense man. I feel like you're all red in the face when you write these nonsensical replies.
So in your mind there's no situation where ukraine doesn't win this war?
For sure there’s a real risk Ukraine isn’t winning this war. But there’s never been a war where there’s absolute certainty one side will win, until we get to the “downfall” times.
So you think they should just keep sending conscripts to die until the downfall times or until Russia just decides to leave?
You think Russia should keep sending conscripts to die or should they just leave?
They can just keep sending missiles and artillery shells to die, they've got the initiative rn
We already follow Comrade Stalin here
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transphobe? in the 40s? NO WAY
BRO SPAIN? Stalin was doing his best to fund the republicans you fucking dumbass. He did not ever want to join the axis.
Lol the country that took berlin and eliminated the most fascists on the planet to date is actually fascism, you are very smart.
Also telling the trans girl to commit suicide? not very cash money at all.
Aw the radlib is trying to use tough antifa lines against the faction that liberated Auschwitz, how cute
Only after being rebuffed by a West more interested in appeasement throughout the 1930s. Stalin knew the USSR was ideologically opposed to both the Liberal Democracies and the Fascists of the time, but couldn't fight both should it have come to that, so he was looking for allies or at the least, a non-aggression pact.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is also not the Tripartite Pact, which is what created the Axis powers.
Go back to your Fox News with that bullshit