So, I guess sort of like Hamilton, but with Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin.

This idea is either brilliant or incredibly terrible. You be the judge.

Discuss.

  • T_Doug [he/him]
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    4 年前

    He didn’t even support the Bolsheviks until the end when it became clear that they were going to win

    While yes, he was not a formal member of the Bolsheviks until weeks before the October Revolution, he was nonetheless deeply affiliated with the Russian Communists, both as a Newspaper editor (he founded Pravda ffs) and later as an MP for a different SDLP factional party after the February Revolution. The respect which Bolsheviks, primarily Lenin, had for him is proven in how he was almost immediately given crucial roles in the Soviet Government as Minister for Foreign affairs, and later Leader of the Red Army. And it was certainly not clear the Reds were going to win when he did this, in fact the deck seemed deeply stacked against the Red Army for much of the Russian Civil War. Also read this 1932 account by Stalin of Trotsky's chief role in organizing the fucking October Revolution.

    All practical work in connection with the organization of the uprising was done under the immediate direction of Comrade Trotsky, the President of the Petrograd Soviet. It can be stated with certainty that the Party is indebted primarily and principally to Comrade Trotsky for the rapid going over of the garrison to the side of the Soviet and the efficient manner in which the work of the Military Revolutionary Committee was organized.

    Later

    He was angry that he didn’t get to lead the USSR and betrayed them as he was exiled from the country

    He was angry because he could see that the path which Stalin was leading the USSR towards was deeply mistaken, and was exiled because Stalin couldn't tolerate any internal criticism of him by the Left Opposition.

    spent a lot of time hanging out with fascists in Europe

    Stalinist claims that Trotsky associated with the Fascist regimes in Italy and Germany are laughably lacking in real, historical, evidence. But if you are interested in his opinions towards Fascism, please read "Fascism: What It Is and How To Fight It" . Also Stalin actually cooperated with Fascists, Moltov-Ribentrop Pact.

    I'm begging you to read something besides Grover Furr.

    He got what he deserved in the end.

    The man who brilliantly led the Red Army to victory against actual reactionaries during the Russian Civil War did not deserve to be brutally murdered for the crime of opposing Stalin from Mexico, while holding virtually zero influence in the actual USSR.

    • ImperativeMandates [none/use name]
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      4 年前

      This is a mix of takes. To say that the Moltov-Ribentrop Pact was cooperating disturbs the situation at the time, a lot. You could add that the soviet union did send oil to baci Germany, too!

      During a post revolutionary time in a country that just managed to squash the counter revolution to say geopolitics is cooperating like at the wild as idealistic instead of materialist.

      • T_Doug [he/him]
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        4 年前

        Idealistic criticisms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact are common, but to say that materialistic critiques of it is impossible is plain wrong.

        • The M/R Pact marked a reversal of the Comintern line from one of Anti-Fascism to one of implicit cooperation. This lead to the disillusionment of a great deal of formerly committed Communists, and a weakening of global Anti-Fascism, and Communist Parties.

        • It's very arguable that Nazi Germany benefited far more from the economic components of the M/R Pact, than the Soviet Union. They were deeply reliant on Soviet resources to fuel its conquest (like 60-80% of their total imports in 1940-41 came from the USSR ), and later; Operation Barbarossa. The Third Reich only paid out a third of what it promised, while the Soviet Union supplied the full quantity of resources demanded.

        • Furthermore, the M/R Pact ended American arms supplies to the USSR. The Red Army was far more dependent on American,not German, arms for their rearmament programs.

        • Contrary to the idea that the M/R Pact was only a decision of realpolitik to better prepare for War with the Third Reich, it instead induced a degree of complacency in Soviet Leadership, to the point that the Red Army divisions on the border were deeply unprepared (and only partially mobilized) during the initial stages of Operation Barbarossa. And Stalin was similarly shocked by the Nazi invasion, despite him being warned of it's imminent possibility by reliable sources dozens of times prior.

        • ImperativeMandates [none/use name]
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          4 年前

          "but to say that materialistic critiques of it is impossible is plain wrong."

          Completely with you. It just can't remain in a realm where moralistic arguments are used, instead of those that are aware of consequences.

          • T_Doug [he/him]
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            4 年前

            I'm glad to see that we seem to be in agreement.

            I actually regret my brief and unsubstantiated reference to the M/R Pact in my original comment, it clearly only distracts from my overall point, and am only leaving it up so that the context is preserved for any future lurkers.