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  • KiaKaha [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Like many splits, the theoretical justifications came after the interpersonal ones. Trotsky lost out on the top job, and fled to the west. He and his tendency were broadly allowed to exist by the west, as they aligned with the US foreign policy line on everything.

    Their tactics of selling newspapers is partly a survival mechanism. It doesn’t really threaten the bourgeoisie, it’s good for recruiting, and it gets them funds. They’re basically tiny NGOs with consistently bad takes on AES.

    That said, their analysis of things that aren't AES isn’t bad. Trotsky’s work on fascism is considered pretty stellar.

    • socialist [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      As they aligned with the US foreign policy line on everything

      yeah okay

      • KiaKaha [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Anti-USSR, anti-Cuba, occasionally anti-China pre-reform, definitely anti-China post-reform. Pro-colour-revolution. Occasionally pro-ISIS.

        Maybe ‘everything’ is the wrong word. ‘The vast majority’?

        • Rodentsteak [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Don't know much about trotskyists today, but Trotsky pretty famously supported the CCP over the KMT while Stalin was still pro KMT. how do they justify the switch?

          • KiaKaha [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            The Soviet (and even CPC) line was ‘work with the national bourgeoisie in a united front against Japanese imperialism’.

            The Chinese trot line was ‘fight reaction all the time’.

        • socialist [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          anti whatever tankies dont like being critizised thanks now i understand

            • socialist [she/her]
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              4 years ago

              Because the soviet union was so anti-imperialist

                    • socialist [she/her]
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                      4 years ago

                      Have you tought about if these big socialist revolutions tried to actually abolish classes oh wait we have to wait like 50 years to develop the productive forces and hope that the state isnt hijacked by evil opportunists

                        • socialist [she/her]
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                          4 years ago

                          We need dictator to lead the masses towards victory

                            • socialist [she/her]
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                              4 years ago

                              Take a look at what happened to the soviet union

                                • socialist [she/her]
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                                  4 years ago

                                  Where is my socialist utopia? If only it wasnt for thsoe medling yankees we could have it

                                      • emizeko [they/them]
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                                        4 years ago

                                        lol, says the fucking queen of deflection

                                        suck my whole ass, and then read a book

                                        • socialist [she/her]
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                                          4 years ago

                                          Why do you think the ussr wasnt doomed from the start?

                                            • socialist [she/her]
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                                              4 years ago

                                              Why cant you answer? I throw these questions and you just tell me to read a book you have read them right?

                                                • socialist [she/her]
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                                                  4 years ago

                                                  lol fucking pathetic cant even defend your position with made up bullshit

                                                          • emizeko [they/them]
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                                                            4 years ago

                                                            and it was true, I've seen what happens when people engage with you

                                                            read a book

                                                            • socialist [she/her]
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                                                              4 years ago

                                                              Youre already engaging with me and making yourself look like a fool

                                                                • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                  Of course it doesnt matter because this site is populated with genocidal assadists

                                                                    • disco [any]
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                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                      Hey, stop doing this okay? You both are looking like idiots right now. It’s not worth it.

                                                                      • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                        4 years ago

                                                                        Youre the dumbest of us all fucking coward. Why were Stalins purges in any way justified?

                                                                        • disco [any]
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                                                                          4 years ago

                                                                          I don’t think Stalin’s purges were justified, I think he was a paranoid sociopath whose desire for personal power set the Soviet Union on the path that eventually lead to its collapse.

                                                                          • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                            4 years ago

                                                                            It was doomed from the start. how could a paranoid authoritarian ever come to power and purge his political enemies in a worker controlled state

                                                                            • disco [any]
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                                                                              4 years ago

                                                                              I have a response for this, but you’re obviously all wound up after that person told you to read a book. I suggest you log off, take a walk or something, and we can talk about the successes and failures of the Soviet experiment in a couple hours or something.

                                                                              • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                                4 years ago

                                                                                I m ready to have a talk lets fucking go if you can change my opinion on the authoritarian system of the state youre wrong and the post ww2 ussr didnt even manage to help the third world movement the only reason youre even posting is because you think they did something right but we can all see how the state destoyed itself

                                                                                • p_sharikov [he/him]
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                                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                                  How much do you actually know about the history? Kind of a critical factor for the productivity of that discussion, thus the "read a book" comments.

                                                                                  • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                                    Where is my soviet union? How could this vanguard of proletarian power get hijacked by opportunists and vanish so quickly

                                                                                    • p_sharikov [he/him]
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                                                                                      4 years ago

                                                                                      Probably because it was an improvised attempt to build socialism out of a preindustrial peasant state during one of the most chaotic periods of history, at the end of which the only unscathed major power happened to be radically anticommunist and rich from war profiteering.

                                                                                      • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                                        4 years ago

                                                                                        And you still jerk off ussr after they established political control over russia and despite calling themselves socialists they also werent?

                                                                                        • p_sharikov [he/him]
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                                                                                          4 years ago

                                                                                          I don't jerk off the USSR though. I'm not sure who you think you're arguing with.

                                                                                          • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                                            4 years ago

                                                                                            youre arguing in a thread where everyone jerks of the ussr

                                                      • disco [any]
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                                                        4 years ago

                                                        deleted by creator

                                                  • disco [any]
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                                                    4 years ago

                                                    Hey, stop doing this okay? You both are looking like idiots right now. It’s not worth it.

                                                    • socialist [she/her]
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                                                      4 years ago

                                                      Im the one trying to have conversation but all these tankies are dodging it

                                                        • socialist [she/her]
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                                                          4 years ago

                                                          Cycle of bans from my anti authoritarian posting and tankie mods

                                                          • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]
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                                                            4 years ago

                                                            Enver_hoxha, I will die for you. Say the word, and I will retreat to the mountains and declare a protracted people’s war against the moderators of chapo.chat

                                                            • socialist [she/her]
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                                                              4 years ago

                                                              I think history and past "socialist" experiements are a great reason to argue

                                                              • p_sharikov [he/him]
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                                                                4 years ago

                                                                Ok, make an effort post with sources about how the USSR was bad. Then people will actually engage with it.

                                                                • socialist [she/her]
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                                                                  4 years ago

                                                                  Fuck you we all see how the ussr was never led by the workers as a class. They had elections like we do, they had some kind of collectivisation leading to famine, they never answered the question of state power that is always the deciding factor on WHO runs the nation and look at what happened couple dictators later they fell and everyone sufered they were fucking cowards too imagine if China and ussr actually supported the 3rd world movement

                                                                  • p_sharikov [he/him]
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                                                                    4 years ago

                                                                    I didn't even say anything about the USSR. I just suggested making an effort post.

                      • JoeySteel [comrade/them]
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                        4 years ago

                        Ignoring the fact that the Soviet Union did indeed abolish the capitalist classes...

                        https://i.imgur.com/miZ7GLY.png

      • PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS [he/him, they/them]
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        4 years ago

        Enver_hoxha, I will die for you. Say the word, and I will retreat to the mountains and declare a protracted people’s war against the moderators of chapo.chat