Turns out if you want durable reforms like universal healthcare in an era where capitalism no longer has the capacity to support durable reforms and the ruling class worldwide is pushing austerity indefinitely, it’s helpful to have some sort of strategy to get rid of capitalism beyond fighting for reforms in isolation.
The states not going anywhere until global capitalism and imperialism does. It’s role has not yet been fulfilled. Stop getting ahead of yourself and sabotaging our project, utopian
In other words, under capitalism we have the state in the proper sense of the word, that is, a special machine for the suppression of one class by another, and, what is more, of the majority by the minority. Naturally, to be successful, such an undertaking as the systematic suppression of the exploited majority by the exploiting minority calls for the utmost ferocity and savagery in the matter of suppressing, it calls for seas of blood, through which mankind is actually wading its way in slavery, serfdom and wage labor.
Furthermore, during the transition from capitalism to communism suppression is still necessary, but it is now the suppression of the exploiting minority by the exploited majority. A special apparatus, a special machine for suppression, the “state”, is still necessary, but this is now a transitional state. It is no longer a state in the proper sense of the word; for the suppression of the minority of exploiters by the majority of the wage slaves of yesterday is comparatively so easy, simple and natural a task that it will entail far less bloodshed than the suppression of the risings of slaves, serfs or wage-laborers, and it will cost mankind far less. And it is compatible with the extension of democracy to such an overwhelming majority of the population that the need for a special machine of suppression will begin to disappear. Naturally, the exploiters are unable to suppress the people without a highly complex machine for performing this task, but the people can suppress the exploiters even with a very simple “machine”, almost without a “machine”, without a special apparatus, by the simple organization of the armed people (such as the Soviets of Workers' and Soldiers' Deputies, we would remark, running ahead).
Lastly, only communism makes the state absolutely unnecessary, for there is nobody to be suppressed--“nobody” in the sense of a class, of a systematic struggle against a definite section of the population. We are not utopians, and do not in the least deny the possibility and inevitability of excesses on the part of individual persons, or the need to stop such excesses. In the first place, however, no special machine, no special apparatus of suppression, is needed for this: this will be done by the armed people themselves, as simply and as readily as any crowd of civilized people, even in modern society, interferes to put a stop to a scuffle or to prevent a woman from being assaulted. And, secondly, we know that the fundamental social cause of excesses, which consist in the violation of the rules of social intercourse, is the exploitation of the people, their want and their poverty. With the removal of this chief cause, excesses will inevitably begin to "wither away". We do not know how quickly and in what succession, but we do know they will wither away. With their withering away the state will also wither away.
The anarchists could just become Marxists already and we could stop fighting
Edit: Marxists are never going to become anarchists en masse in the same way athiests are never going to become Eastern Orthodox en masse. Anarchism and Marxism are incompatible, one calling for the immediate dissolution of the state and the other calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Anarchism has never won anything.
How do you all see this playing out? There is no other viable outcome except for the anarchists to all wise up and get on board the real global movement. In every other outcome, the former anarchists lose. There is only one path for an anarchist to communism, and it’s through Marxism. So grow up and get with the program and 90% of the global left.
You mean anarchists have coopted certain non-threatening bits of Marx after getting owned by Marxism so hard they became (even more) irrelevant.
Anarchism is an idealist philosophy. Marxism is a materialist philosophy. There is no philosophical alignment except by happenstance, and all that anarcho-Marxists are doing is butchering and creating an incoherent abomination.
mate you need to chill a little. calling everyone who's not an ml/mlm a "counter-revolutionary" is really annoying. it's not like your ideologies brought communism either for fucks sake.
Honestly, capitalism is gonna collapse all by itself. We don't need to "overthrow" it at all. What we absolutely need to do is make sure when it happens (which would probably be a long process rather than one singular event, though the final blow will, obviously, be a massive one), we are ready with an alternative that makes life better for all and doesn't allow zombie capitalism to rise. if we can't do that, then it's either the resurrected corpse (or more likely, chud fascism/feudalism).
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Turns out if you want durable reforms like universal healthcare in an era where capitalism no longer has the capacity to support durable reforms and the ruling class worldwide is pushing austerity indefinitely, it’s helpful to have some sort of strategy to get rid of capitalism beyond fighting for reforms in isolation.
you right now
but yeah, still critical support (far less critical than many others too) for dprk. they've been through some shit.
The states not going anywhere until global capitalism and imperialism does. It’s role has not yet been fulfilled. Stop getting ahead of yourself and sabotaging our project, utopian
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jesus christ let's not please. i'm tried of the constant infighting.
The anarchists could just become Marxists already and we could stop fighting
Edit: Marxists are never going to become anarchists en masse in the same way athiests are never going to become Eastern Orthodox en masse. Anarchism and Marxism are incompatible, one calling for the immediate dissolution of the state and the other calling for a dictatorship of the proletariat. Anarchism has never won anything.
How do you all see this playing out? There is no other viable outcome except for the anarchists to all wise up and get on board the real global movement. In every other outcome, the former anarchists lose. There is only one path for an anarchist to communism, and it’s through Marxism. So grow up and get with the program and 90% of the global left.
lol
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Well Marxism is objectively correct and a science, so those who harbor utopian ideals should dispel them in favor of proven methods
there's a difference between marxists and ml/m. a lot of anarchism overlaps with a lot of marxism. less so with ml/m.
You mean anarchists have coopted certain non-threatening bits of Marx after getting owned by Marxism so hard they became (even more) irrelevant.
Anarchism is an idealist philosophy. Marxism is a materialist philosophy. There is no philosophical alignment except by happenstance, and all that anarcho-Marxists are doing is butchering and creating an incoherent abomination.
https://i.imgur.com/qd1sWUA.jpg
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mate you need to chill a little. calling everyone who's not an ml/mlm a "counter-revolutionary" is really annoying. it's not like your ideologies brought communism either for fucks sake.
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Honestly, capitalism is gonna collapse all by itself. We don't need to "overthrow" it at all. What we absolutely need to do is make sure when it happens (which would probably be a long process rather than one singular event, though the final blow will, obviously, be a massive one), we are ready with an alternative that makes life better for all and doesn't allow zombie capitalism to rise. if we can't do that, then it's either the resurrected corpse (or more likely, chud fascism/feudalism).
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“There thing” being imperial cheerleaders and chauvinists?
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