Explain the cost, repeat it incessantly. The cost is human lives. Her (and your) material comfort is built on a chain of human suffering where denying people basic resources creates "value." In my experience, the best way to get to woke capitalist types is to force them to explain away human suffering until they get tired of explaining it.
I agree. I'll attempt to translate this sentiment into terms Snakechapman's neolib SO (or ex?) might actually understand:
It's necessary to understand and articulate what the trade-offs actually typically are under the conditions of imperialist capitalism: when capitalists control society, they limit politically-feasible options to those which impose negative externalities to the poor whenever possible, up to and including literally killing people, getting them killed, or allowing them to die when the opportunity cost of not doing any of that is less income for themselves.
The fallacy of neoliberalism as its /r/neolib proponents present it is that Pareto improvements and "growing the pie" are the only options to improve collective welfare (according to a utilitarian definition, where capitalists act like utility monsters), no matter how asymmetric the terms of exchange are between capitalist and worker, and between colonizer and colonized. These purely political constraints are just the way things are, and considered completely exogenous. Kaldor-Hicks improvements which come at great cost to the wealthy but which help the masses are off-limits even though some such redistributive measures - even basic social-democratic ones dismissed by the neoliberals as "too radical" - are common fucking sense when phrased correctly to most working-class people without PMC or West Wing brainworms.
They don't. They say universal healthcare is impossible in America (either b/c of cost or Republicans won't let us) then they quote how Obamacare got millions of new people on insurance (without mentioning the coercive tax that came with it or the billions in handouts to insurance).
I always repeat the point that America is the richest country in the history of existence. If we can't afford to provide healthcare and the UK and Canada can, then we're complicit in killing people for profit. Again, the only way capitalists can make anything profitable is provide barriers to entry. Ask them why it's okay for poor children to die for the crime of being born in the wrong zip code.
They explain it away with terms like "access" to healthcare and wave away any deaths with justifications that they were old and fat anyways so who currs
RIP. Well, you'll find someone else, it's far better to tell her to go fuck herself now, than later on when you're too attached not to feel like shit about it. Besides, this year, and the upcoming decade will mean more socialists in general, so you'll have plenty more occasions to find a better person than an actual neolib who thinks woke capitalism is cool and good, actually.
Ive been trying for months. They love the idea of woke capitalism and literally think radical centrism is the lowest cost path to the best outcomes
Explain the cost, repeat it incessantly. The cost is human lives. Her (and your) material comfort is built on a chain of human suffering where denying people basic resources creates "value." In my experience, the best way to get to woke capitalist types is to force them to explain away human suffering until they get tired of explaining it.
I agree. I'll attempt to translate this sentiment into terms Snakechapman's neolib SO (or ex?) might actually understand:
It's necessary to understand and articulate what the trade-offs actually typically are under the conditions of imperialist capitalism: when capitalists control society, they limit politically-feasible options to those which impose negative externalities to the poor whenever possible, up to and including literally killing people, getting them killed, or allowing them to die when the opportunity cost of not doing any of that is less income for themselves.
The fallacy of neoliberalism as its /r/neolib proponents present it is that Pareto improvements and "growing the pie" are the only options to improve collective welfare (according to a utilitarian definition, where capitalists act like utility monsters), no matter how asymmetric the terms of exchange are between capitalist and worker, and between colonizer and colonized. These purely political constraints are just the way things are, and considered completely exogenous. Kaldor-Hicks improvements which come at great cost to the wealthy but which help the masses are off-limits even though some such redistributive measures - even basic social-democratic ones dismissed by the neoliberals as "too radical" - are common fucking sense when phrased correctly to most working-class people without PMC or West Wing brainworms.
Brilliant, thanks comrade
how do they justify US “healthcare” and private market death panels (insurance companies)?
They don't. They say universal healthcare is impossible in America (either b/c of cost or Republicans won't let us) then they quote how Obamacare got millions of new people on insurance (without mentioning the coercive tax that came with it or the billions in handouts to insurance).
I always repeat the point that America is the richest country in the history of existence. If we can't afford to provide healthcare and the UK and Canada can, then we're complicit in killing people for profit. Again, the only way capitalists can make anything profitable is provide barriers to entry. Ask them why it's okay for poor children to die for the crime of being born in the wrong zip code.
They explain it away with terms like "access" to healthcare and wave away any deaths with justifications that they were old and fat anyways so who currs
RIP. Well, you'll find someone else, it's far better to tell her to go fuck herself now, than later on when you're too attached not to feel like shit about it. Besides, this year, and the upcoming decade will mean more socialists in general, so you'll have plenty more occasions to find a better person than an actual neolib who thinks woke capitalism is cool and good, actually.