Lately I have been seeing a fair bit of discourse on this site in regards to the messaging and tone that leftists are accused of using when addressing people who have joined the military. I've decided to write this wall of incoherent text to give my thoughts on the issue. The stances that I am addressing can be seen in posts like this: https://hexbear.net/post/50662
There are other examples of this discussion but I don't have all the threads saved, still if you've been here for a while you may have already seen a few of these struggle sessions already and know what I'm talking about.

The main critique that people seem to have of posts like this, i.e. posts that are critical of people who have joined the military in the imperial core, is that we shouldn't criticise individuals for joining the military as many of them simply join because their material conditions leave them with few other options for making a living. That we have to try and reach out to these people in a way that gets them on our side. After all in any kind of revolution or armed struggle that takes place we will need the support of members of the military, or at least some sympathetic personnel who are trained in combat.

Whilst I don't deny that material conditions are a key factor for many people that join the military and am in favour of getting more of these people to come to the left, I find this critique somewhat hollow for a number of reasons. Firstly, it's rather naive to think that most people join primarily due to material conditions. The military is often filled with reactionaries and this is no accident. The jingoistic and nationalistic rhetoric that drives recruitment propaganda ensures this, and this isn't unique to the USA. Take this story about soldiers in UK using pictures of Jeremy Corbyn for target practice: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-48868071. Many of these people have absolutely no sympathy for the left, and see it as a threat to their country. Any attempt to reach soldiers like this is going to be extremely difficult, if not next to impossible. For me the argument of converting them bears the same hallmarks of the argument that we should be converting members of the alt-right. Sure, it would be good to de-radicalise these people, but why should this be the left's priority when there are vastly more people whose very existence is threatened by them, and would be far more sympathetic and easier to reach out to?

The other argument I've seen is that it is not particularly useful to make critiques against individuals and we should instead be aiming to critique the system, and that harsh rhetoric against individuals is more about people on the left trying to claim some kind of privileged moral high ground and purity. Of course it's absolutely critical that our arguments should include how the imperialist system itself is fundamentally destructive, but should this really be in complete substitution to points made in the posts like the one linked above? I find it extraordinary that a community based on chapotraphouse would take such issue with an admittedly intentionally inflammatory post like this. The entire dirtbag left movement has been built around the idea of not mincing rhetoric, that bullying works. Is it not true that there is something quite morally bankrupt about a person who has joined the military for the financial incentives (be it as it may that their material conditions left them with few alternatives), knowing full well that they may have to directly or indirectly be a part of an imperialist war machine that has killed millions of innocents across the world? Is this not in some ways even more dubious than a person who joined the military with the genuine belief that they were defending their country from genuine threats? Uncompromising rhetoric and harsh criticism has been a key part of the dirtbag left, and I see no reason why this should stop. Bullying works. I know that for me personally I have been pushed further left because this attitude forced me to question my own reactionary thoughts and beliefs, and I am sure this is the case for many other people here.

It's all well and good to talk about how the military industrial complex puts soldiers through the meat grinder, leading to the lives of soldiers being wasted in pointless forever wars, but if this the main argument that we use to convince people that joining the military is wrong, it will simply lead to the same anti-war rhetoric that surrounded Vietnam and the Iraq War. It is fairly mainstream now to say that these wars were a waste of American lives, but to then go on to suggest that the wars themselves were not just a waste, but totally unjust and represent imperialism as the highest stage of capitalism does not seem to break through to the mainstream as much. This is perhaps less so the case with the Iraq War, as everyone agrees that the WMDs were BS now, but even if they were real would that have justified a war that was ultimately about furthering imperial interests? That is still a difficult argument to make in the present day. Chomsky (I know sorry) covers this well in the concept of controlled opposition.

In Lenin's what is to be done? He takes to task members of left organisations who could be thought of as Economists - people who thought the key to class consciousness was to speak to workers purely in terms of giving their Economic struggles a 'political character'. But if you only speak to workers in terms of their Economic woes, the likely result is that you won't create a movement of people conscious of the class struggle, but will instead look for reform through systems which are still part of the capitalist hegemony - Trade Unionism, going through Government to get temporary concessions etc. Or in the case of the military, “DAE think more PoC, Gay and Trans people in the military good actually?”I think a parallel can be drawn here with people who simply try to reach military personnel by telling them they had few other options because of their material conditions. They may very well agree with you, but if they are not given the full picture of how the military industrial complex is fully intertwined with capital, then there introspection will go no further than that and they will never be a part of a genuine leftist movement which seeks to overthrow capitalism altogether. And that's the entire point isn't it? We want former soldiers on the left as an armed struggles necessitates the involvement of people with the ability to actually take up arms.

A final point and a bit of a personal one, but one that I hope will resonate with people who would call themselves allies. I am a Muslim and a PoC, born and raised in the imperial core. I am of an age where since I have been a child, all I have known is the demonization of Muslims and ethnic minorities as terrorists who threaten the west. The military is largely comprised of reactionaries who see my existence as nothing less than an aberration, a threat to their way of life. I am quite sure they would like nothing less than to be given the green light to purge people like me. Why the fuck should I be expected to try and engage with these people with any care or understanding? Those of you who think that leftists that harshly criticise soldiers are looking for some kind of superfluous moral higher ground and purity, I suggest you check your own privilege before coming at people like me. Because surprise surprise the people that take this tone are almost entirely white leftists who have the luxury of being able to engage with soldiers who don't automatically see them as subhuman. To all white leftists, by all means go ahead and engage with soldiers, if you can convert them I say job well done and thank you for your service. But do fuck off with this condescending tone that people like me are somehow not being good enough leftists if we're not trying to patiently and lovingly persuade soldiers in imperialist countries.

"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."

"who the fuck is scraeming "LOG OFF" at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never log off"