Oh God, oh shit, I said I wasn't going to do it. I said I wasn't going to start a China struggle session. Already getting flashbacks to the Discord.

But something just doesn't sit right with me and wanted to get some clarification here...

My question is this: why does China ban labor organizing/unions?

Is this yikes/intentional/actually a good thing?

(Yeah, I do know that labor unions are not always unequivocally good and sometimes they act more like middle management than as representatives of the workers... but democratizing the workplace seems like a no-brainer for any socialist project.)

Thoughts?

      • anthm17 [he/him]
        9·
        4 年前

        These positions illustrate the ways in which Marxist language and Marxist propositions, intermixed with ideas drawn from mainstream Western neoclassical economic theory, are used today in China to support the completion of China's shift to private property and a market economy

        :shocked-pikachu:

        • anthm17 [he/him]
          11·
          4 年前

          These quote's are fucking insane

          When an [state owned enterprise] is turned into a joint-stock corporation with many shareholders, it represents socialization of ownership as Marx and Engels described it, since ownership goes from a single owner to a large number of owners

          Please someone, anyone, defend that bullshit.

          Holy fuck how does anyone delude themselves into believing that China is anything but pure capitalist.

          People fool themselves into thinking that all capitalism is late stage and that governments can't be at least somewhat functional while being capitalist. China isn't a completely failing late stage hellhole like America, but it will get there on this path.

      • CoralMarks [he/him]
        1·
        4 年前

        Besides current labor and past labor [the latter the Marxist term for the labor required to produce the means of production], there is a third type of labor, namely "risk labor." Marxist theory should take account of this third type of labor, which is expended by those who take risks through entrepreneurship.

        Le epic Marxism :this-is-fine:

        Funny side note: the authors last name is the German word for to puke, which is kinda fitting.

    • sleepdealer [he/him]
      ·
      4 年前

      Hasn't a lot changed in the 13 years since this was published? I would think the 2008 collapse and COVID-19 would at the very least support wider approval of SOEs and central planning.

      • anthm17 [he/him]
        8·
        4 年前

        I don't believe the goal is socialism.

        edit: not among everyone, but the people saying the stuff from the article (which is old and apparently the party has shifted left since)

        and really it isn't, communism is. Maybe it legitimately is just a sacrifice. Just seems like capitalism is making inroads.