Oh God, oh shit, I said I wasn't going to do it. I said I wasn't going to start a China struggle session. Already getting flashbacks to the Discord.

But something just doesn't sit right with me and wanted to get some clarification here...

My question is this: why does China ban labor organizing/unions?

Is this yikes/intentional/actually a good thing?

(Yeah, I do know that labor unions are not always unequivocally good and sometimes they act more like middle management than as representatives of the workers... but democratizing the workplace seems like a no-brainer for any socialist project.)

Thoughts?

  • My_Army [any]
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    4 years ago

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    • fusion513 [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      Yeah, but isn't "workers of the world unite" the whole point of being a Marxist? Decrying "independent" trade unions as foreign influence and prohibiting outright seems pretty disingenuous.

      • My_Army [any]
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        • fusion513 [none/use name]
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          Because if you're arbitrarily dividing labor among national borders and don't recognize that it's really an international class struggle, that's bad for solidarity. Divide and conquer for the bourgeoisie since capital knows no borders.

          China certainly doesn't have any qualms about "foreign influence" from foreign corporations... but foreign labor organizations on the other hand? :thonk:

          But maybe if the state trade union starts kicking ass, I'd feel differently. End goal is abolition of class, after all and labor unions are just a key tool of that goal.

          • KiaKaha [he/him]
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            China certainly doesn’t have any qualms about “foreign influence” from foreign corporations…

            R u off ur head?

            Foreign corporations have previously had to enter into joint ventures with Chinese companies to even enter in. It leverages the ACFTU to unionise within those foreign corporations to retain control. There are laws that require party cells within corporations of a certain size.

          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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            commodities & most forms of production are carried out within nation states

            https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/trade-union-fast-food-giants-violate-labor-law-china/

            but it's the corporations, foreign & domestic, who are undermining the state of labor relations in China, and not necessarily the CPC

      • MonarchLabsOne [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        This brings up an interesting question: Can none Chinese workers join the State Union? If so, would they support worker action in other countries?

        • KiaKaha [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          Almost certainly not at this juncture.

          China ceased exporting socialism years ago. Maybe we’ll see it revive those roots later on, but right now its position internationally is peaceful co-development. The one saving grace is that it’s happy to assist countries otherwise frozen out by the USA.

      • Fear_and_loading [none/use name]
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        . Any polity that collapses without a single person on top of it is not a well-structured polity.

        Fucking tattoo this on the skin of the people that whine that the USSR was boned the second Stalin died

      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        "in part because of the political leanings of some union leaders. In fact, on the very day of the 4 August 1983 revolution, the CNR was repudiated by a congress of the main primary school teachers’ union, which had backed a previous military regime. In March 1984 security forces arrested several of the union’s leaders, prompting a three-day strike that was observed by many teachers around the country."

        Sounds more like these fancy lad union bosses were getting kickbacks & special treatment from the previous Junta regime

          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            I think in this case it was more about these trade unionists being unnecessarily resistant to the real social & institutional changes that were required for Burkinabe to lift themselves up

            When meritocracy is threatened, it's usually the pampered & out-of-touch eggheads & powerful hierarchical social arrangements of the past that react in these ways