• BigBoopPaul [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    You're correct. All they did is take 300 million rural peasant farmers who live off the grid, stuck them in factories, gave them a meager stipend (hey, they technically were earning ZERO before that), and used this as justification to say "brought 300M out of poverty".

    • KamalaHarrisPOTUS [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      800m and guess what in my 3rd world coutnry id fucking love to have the majority of the people go from being literally the wrecthed of the earth to office workers whose domestic consumption is the largest in the world and shit in a generation lol

      • BigBoopPaul [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Well yeah. This is exactly what I mean. You're a victim to the window dressing.

        • KamalaHarrisPOTUS [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          yeah im a victim of not wanting to see my neighbors die of prevetnable disease, window dressing fuck off lol

          i want my community to be better, i want peoples needs to be met and their leisure to be greater, not to project dead russian thinkers from a centrury ago

          if you find a way to both im on board, but i care about material reality, not fantasy

    • Gang_gang [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      well im not going to completely sign off on that, i mean the farmers didnt really live off the grid either they had shitty feudal lords and stuff. im not a maoist either, but life in china definitely improved for a lot of people after his revolution.

      • BigBoopPaul [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        I mean, if "80 hours a week of hard labor to funnel 99% of revenue into the top 0.1% of capitalists" is your kind of revolution, well we'll agree to disagree.

        • volkvulture [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          billionaires get executed in PRC

          President Xi just this year jailed a billionaire for 18 years for mouthing off online lol

          Dictatorship of the proletariat & mass line are both alive and well within PRC, you're just not going to admit that they're doing far better than the US at both capitalism & socialism lmfao

          • BigBoopPaul [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            The fact that billionaires exist at all should be a bigger point of contention for you. But if one ritual sacrifice is enough to keep you glommed on to their team, have at it, Capitalist 2.0.

            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              State capitalism is the initial stage of socialism

              The lower stage is born from the womb of capitalism and has all its birthmarks... that's literally what Marx wrote

              If a country and a People had to pass some dupe's purity tests online, then I think the revolution & any workable alternative would've been snuffed out long ago

              • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                State capitalism is the initial stage of socialism

                The lower stage is born from the womb of capitalism and has all its birthmarks… that’s literally what Marx wrote

                I really struggle to grapple with how many self-avowwed "leftists" don't understand this.

                Marx said that socialism would arise out of capitalism. So if you think Marx is right then state capitalism and later socialism are not at all mutually exclusive. State capitalism might not be pretty, but it sure seems to beat the shit out of every other type of awful capitalism thats been tried so far.

                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  plus it's the only legitimate way that workers can both feed themselves & engage in productive organized activity while also creating the surpluses needed to rail against their class enemies

                  if we had a way to "Vajrayana" lightning strike our way to FALGSC, I think the thing would've already happened lol

              • BigBoopPaul [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                At the end of the day, you're trusting one set of autocrats over another. I get it. The collapse of Western hegemony is well past due.

                I just think you're falling for the feel-good reactionary alternative in doing so.

                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  wrong again

                  there is such thing as social necessity

                  you are a reactionary for thinking that PRC has to abide by some abstract set of "traditional" principles that really only exist inside your mind, not in the real world

                  there are material conditions that have to be considered, and 1 billion+ people have to wake up and eat every day

                  without state capitalism, PRC would still be a feudal backwater and without socialism it would still be an imperialistic or client state mess

                  if you don't want to give credit for the fastest growing & most quickly advancing economic system in history, fine. but don't try to label it something it's not

                  that's just your brand of cope, not anything to do with reality

          • Gang_gang [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            doing better at capitalism and socialism lol. talk about a galaxy brain

            • volkvulture [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              PRC is the only major country growing at the moment

              so, yes

              It's not the CPC's fault that you haven't read Marx

              • Gang_gang [none/use name]
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                4 years ago

                if were being accelerationist ok lol, but then you cant really credit the ccp for that cause theyre literally just following the easiest and inevitable course of things that makes their elites money in the short term

                • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  no, their elites play by the rules & color within the lines or they get executed

                  Billionaires do not get executed in the West & are the crux upon which the entire system relies in the West

                  In PRC, billionaires are jailed for the slightest offense... that's literally dictatorship of the proletariat

                  We are still in the stage of class struggle, and China can't just invent the "communism button" and have it built just so for all naysayers to spit out their cereal, you're acting childish

                  • Gang_gang [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    how can making literally a billion dollars in unpaid wages of the working class be anything other than an offense to the proletariat. if thats within the lines then fuck the lines. inequality in china is pretty similar to the us right now. and its going up. why would a dictatorship of the proletariat allow this?

                    They could super easily stop sending police to enforce things like rent, coercing people into working their life away.

        • Gang_gang [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          yeah i mean its absolutely not lol, im just objecting to what youre saying about the farmers. but i do agree with the point that yeah more money on paper isnt neccesarily better.