But... but... I was told China was actually existing socialism! I guess it's all okay because Xi Jinping totally intends to take all the money and apply it to create fully-automated communism any day now. It's gonna happen guys. Trust me.
Since the fifties China's primary objective has been to defeat imperialism. "Fully automated communism" is not possible until that happens.
edit: to expand on this, China as an economic superpower is the reason why shit like Vietnam, Korea, and Cambodia don't happen anymore. If China were to go for whatever flavour of communism is in your head, they would no longer be an economic superpower and the west would GLADLY occupy the area again. If you think the US isn't going to immediately interfere in any sort of anarchist China you're delusional. Calling China not actually socialist because it has billionaires gives off strong "socialism? but iPhone" vibes.
It's sad how you guys think opposition to U.S. empire excuses lack of labor rights, bans on unionization, and hundreds of billionaires. It displays a real lack of confidence in the socialist mode of production. I think it is entirely possible to be an economic superpower and also socialist. In fact, worker control of the means of production is much more efficient, will result in much more innovation, and is necessary to unlock the working class's full economic potential. Of course the U.S. will interfere with a real socialist state, but they won't win, because socialism is the superior system.
I know China idealists like to think that China is gonna save the world, but you're projecting on to a state whose actions in the last 30+ years have shown no evidence of interest in actually building socialism abroad or at home. Sorry man, but as a materialist, I have to look honestly at the material conditions of the Chinese working class, and not focus on what the leadership has said about what they intend to do in some long distant future.
Replacing U.S. capitalist imperialism (already well past it's 1950s peak), with multipolar Chinese-U.S. capitalist imperialism just doesn't get me excited, sorry.
It’s sad how you guys think opposition to U.S. empire excuses lack of labor rights, bans on unionization, and hundreds of billionaires. It displays a real lack of confidence in the socialist mode of production.
It doesn't. It's purpose is to defeat imperialism, your dream of worker coop China does nothing to make China an economic superpower or defeat imperialism.
In fact, worker control of the means of production is much more efficient, will result in much more innovation, and is necessary to unlock the working class’s full economic potential. Of course the U.S. will interfere with a real socialist state, but they won’t win, because socialism is the superior system.
Ok, well bring that about in whatever western nation you're apart of, because none of that applies to China. The US has defeated several socialist countries through their interference, they're very good at it.
I know China idealists like to think that China is gonna save the world, but you’re projecting on to a state whose actions in the last 30+ years have shown no evidence of interest in actually building socialism abroad or at home. Sorry man, but as a materialist, I have to look honestly at the material conditions of the Chinese working class, and not focus on what the leadership has said about what they intend to do in some long distant future.
Just because you're still better off then them doesn't mean they aren't improving their material conditions. You're in a nation in rapid decline, things will change.
Replacing U.S. capitalist imperialism (already well past it’s 1950s peak), with multipolar Chinese-U.S. capitalist imperialism just doesn’t get me excited, sorry.
This doesn't make any sense, the US is extracting capital from almost every country on earth, they were nowhere near this bad during the cold war.
Lol, your team always sounds like you just came out of a Davos talk on economic development.
"There is no alternative to [state] capitalism. We can only make the lives of workers better by suborning the needs of workers and rigorously disciplining any labor activity. Structural adjustments are needed before unions and universal healthcare can be allowed."
But... but... I was told China was actually existing socialism! I guess it's all okay because Xi Jinping totally intends to take all the money and apply it to create fully-automated communism any day now. It's gonna happen guys. Trust me.
Since the fifties China's primary objective has been to defeat imperialism. "Fully automated communism" is not possible until that happens.
edit: to expand on this, China as an economic superpower is the reason why shit like Vietnam, Korea, and Cambodia don't happen anymore. If China were to go for whatever flavour of communism is in your head, they would no longer be an economic superpower and the west would GLADLY occupy the area again. If you think the US isn't going to immediately interfere in any sort of anarchist China you're delusional. Calling China not actually socialist because it has billionaires gives off strong "socialism? but iPhone" vibes.
It's sad how you guys think opposition to U.S. empire excuses lack of labor rights, bans on unionization, and hundreds of billionaires. It displays a real lack of confidence in the socialist mode of production. I think it is entirely possible to be an economic superpower and also socialist. In fact, worker control of the means of production is much more efficient, will result in much more innovation, and is necessary to unlock the working class's full economic potential. Of course the U.S. will interfere with a real socialist state, but they won't win, because socialism is the superior system.
I know China idealists like to think that China is gonna save the world, but you're projecting on to a state whose actions in the last 30+ years have shown no evidence of interest in actually building socialism abroad or at home. Sorry man, but as a materialist, I have to look honestly at the material conditions of the Chinese working class, and not focus on what the leadership has said about what they intend to do in some long distant future.
Replacing U.S. capitalist imperialism (already well past it's 1950s peak), with multipolar Chinese-U.S. capitalist imperialism just doesn't get me excited, sorry.
It doesn't. It's purpose is to defeat imperialism, your dream of worker coop China does nothing to make China an economic superpower or defeat imperialism.
Ok, well bring that about in whatever western nation you're apart of, because none of that applies to China. The US has defeated several socialist countries through their interference, they're very good at it.
Just because you're still better off then them doesn't mean they aren't improving their material conditions. You're in a nation in rapid decline, things will change.
This doesn't make any sense, the US is extracting capital from almost every country on earth, they were nowhere near this bad during the cold war.
Lol, your team always sounds like you just came out of a Davos talk on economic development.
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Ok
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You want to bring up the material interests of a country that's just completely eliminated extreme poverty?