Found that pretty interesting. "Line go up" appears to be a universal calling card.
I've got nothing productive to add to this conversation than CHYNA :thicc-trump:
Well, maybe one thing. China stans need to state upfront that "no, the current Chinese state is not the ideal form of DotP, but we hope in the future it'll become that. We hope that because of this, this and this reasons."
Then China...not-stans(?) can say "well, I disagree because of this, this, and this"
Then we can all go back to discussing how to make leftism happen where we live, rather than argue about it on twitter (and apparently, even Chapo -_-
The problem basically is that most anti-china folks dont take any sort of nuanced analysis of it but instead go for debate club victories through really cheap rhetoric that takes at the very least 2x the effort to explain why its not that way, and no one has the energy to deal with that when most of it isnt in good faith anyways so its easier to just go full uncritical china support when arguing online while having a more nuanced and critical view personally.
they also slapped down Jack Ma's IPO because he was trying to do an end run around monetary policy, and executed 14 billionaires in the last 8 years
productive forces can go brrrrrrrr a little bit, as a treat
Yes, and the US (presumably) murdered Jeffrey Epstein, and they're set to prosecute Ghislaine Maxwell. If China is leading the way on billionaires, it stands to reason the US is at the forefront of the war on child sex trafficking. I love circular logic!
(presumably)
yes what a good comparison, extrajudicial murder by presumable state actors is just the same as a judicial process leading to execution
Well, can't say I've ever witnessed an appeal to the US's dog and pony pageantry of a court system as a defense of China's, but here we are.
If you skip the part where Epstein was killed to stop him from squealing on all the other pedo billionaires, and the Chinese prosecutions were widely understood as a a pointed warning to private capital , then yes. Those two things are exactly alike.
Lol. These fools see a tiny amount of intra-bourgeoisie infighting in a country they've decided is the "good guy" and all of a sudden it's part of Xi's three dimensional chess gambit to make communism happen by 2080.
The U.S. filed anti-trust suits against Facebook, U.S. actually existing socialism confirmed!
Have you also heard of Kenneth Lay and Bernie Madoff? I'm gobsmacked these rich elites were prosecuted! I guess the right-wing fascists must have it right that we're doing a Communism!
Kenneth Lay died of natural causes before sentencing and his conviction was overturned
and can massively exploit the population a little bit as a fake necessity.
party leaders must also necessarily be rich as fuck.
Same. I don't agree with half the arguments I make but it's interesting to see what bubbles to the surface.
China has executed more billionaires than any country in existence so, idk, I give them a pass on some things.
According to the official government interpretation of the flag, the red background symbolizes the Chinese Communist Revolution. The four stars and their relationship represents the unity of Chinese people under the leadership of the Communist Party of China. The orientation of the stars shows that the unity should revolve around a center.[14] In the original description of the flag by Zeng, the larger star symbolizes the Communist Party of China, and the four smaller stars that surround the big star symbolize the four social classes of China's New Democracy mentioned in Mao's "On the People's Democratic Dictatorship": the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie, and the national bourgeoisie.
Nothing’s changed from Mao’s years, except the scale of success.
Also, the USSR has the bourgeoisie under Lenin’s NEP. Didn’t stop collectivisation under Stalin later.
Don't forget that Stalin didn't stomp out the bourgeoisie because it ticked his mustache, it's because that during desperate times the Bourgeoisie took every opportunity to profit through market domination and price gouging.
Obviously in a choice between letting people die from a lack of essential goods or executing the bourgeoisie for crimes against humanity, any sane person would start sharpening their guillotine blade.
I love me a struggle session but I am bored of the arguments. We need new arguments! Old arguments are worthless from now on ok?
This is praxis. China must develop the productive forces before transitioning to socialism, etc, etc
But these are billionaires with socialist characteristics, or so they say.
CNBC is the business channel they do all the stocks and billionaire shit
But... but... I was told China was actually existing socialism! I guess it's all okay because Xi Jinping totally intends to take all the money and apply it to create fully-automated communism any day now. It's gonna happen guys. Trust me.
Since the fifties China's primary objective has been to defeat imperialism. "Fully automated communism" is not possible until that happens.
edit: to expand on this, China as an economic superpower is the reason why shit like Vietnam, Korea, and Cambodia don't happen anymore. If China were to go for whatever flavour of communism is in your head, they would no longer be an economic superpower and the west would GLADLY occupy the area again. If you think the US isn't going to immediately interfere in any sort of anarchist China you're delusional. Calling China not actually socialist because it has billionaires gives off strong "socialism? but iPhone" vibes.
It's sad how you guys think opposition to U.S. empire excuses lack of labor rights, bans on unionization, and hundreds of billionaires. It displays a real lack of confidence in the socialist mode of production. I think it is entirely possible to be an economic superpower and also socialist. In fact, worker control of the means of production is much more efficient, will result in much more innovation, and is necessary to unlock the working class's full economic potential. Of course the U.S. will interfere with a real socialist state, but they won't win, because socialism is the superior system.
I know China idealists like to think that China is gonna save the world, but you're projecting on to a state whose actions in the last 30+ years have shown no evidence of interest in actually building socialism abroad or at home. Sorry man, but as a materialist, I have to look honestly at the material conditions of the Chinese working class, and not focus on what the leadership has said about what they intend to do in some long distant future.
Replacing U.S. capitalist imperialism (already well past it's 1950s peak), with multipolar Chinese-U.S. capitalist imperialism just doesn't get me excited, sorry.
It’s sad how you guys think opposition to U.S. empire excuses lack of labor rights, bans on unionization, and hundreds of billionaires. It displays a real lack of confidence in the socialist mode of production.
It doesn't. It's purpose is to defeat imperialism, your dream of worker coop China does nothing to make China an economic superpower or defeat imperialism.
In fact, worker control of the means of production is much more efficient, will result in much more innovation, and is necessary to unlock the working class’s full economic potential. Of course the U.S. will interfere with a real socialist state, but they won’t win, because socialism is the superior system.
Ok, well bring that about in whatever western nation you're apart of, because none of that applies to China. The US has defeated several socialist countries through their interference, they're very good at it.
I know China idealists like to think that China is gonna save the world, but you’re projecting on to a state whose actions in the last 30+ years have shown no evidence of interest in actually building socialism abroad or at home. Sorry man, but as a materialist, I have to look honestly at the material conditions of the Chinese working class, and not focus on what the leadership has said about what they intend to do in some long distant future.
Just because you're still better off then them doesn't mean they aren't improving their material conditions. You're in a nation in rapid decline, things will change.
Replacing U.S. capitalist imperialism (already well past it’s 1950s peak), with multipolar Chinese-U.S. capitalist imperialism just doesn’t get me excited, sorry.
This doesn't make any sense, the US is extracting capital from almost every country on earth, they were nowhere near this bad during the cold war.
Lol, your team always sounds like you just came out of a Davos talk on economic development.
"There is no alternative to [state] capitalism. We can only make the lives of workers better by suborning the needs of workers and rigorously disciplining any labor activity. Structural adjustments are needed before unions and universal healthcare can be allowed."
You want to bring up the material interests of a country that's just completely eliminated extreme poverty?
