the US Radlibs that infest the US demsoc/socdem left are literally worst than the 20th century opportunists like Kautsky, they only live to stall actual progress for the american workers only so their side can win like its a fucking game, they dont actually care about anyone but themselfs.
Radlibs will be the death of the US left unless purged from the movement
What kind of reparations
probably a student loan debt forgiveness for Pell Grant recipients who start a business that operates for three years in disadvantaged communities. :top-cop:
I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS REAL HOLY SHIT
I THOUGHT IT WAS A JOKE
WE LIVE IN HELL :agony-limitless: :agony-immense:
her student debt policy was one of the biggest electoral memes in the sub, they were however over shadow by pete the rat and snake warren
I think I joined after that. You wouldn't believe it but at the end of 2019 I thought that Warren was better because "Bernie was too radical". Material conditions and the left pipeline can do a lot for a mf.
I mean SJWs still exist, but now we call them radlibs. Bardfinn is a perfect example. She is antifascist which is cool and good but her moderation policy is, well, see for yourself: https://www.reddit.com/r/ContraPoints/comments/aqxvdi/the_moderation_situation/egkthcm/
um excuse me but in regards to my point you didn't critique, you GISH GALLOPED. And that was after you Poisoned the Well.
You neither know, nor care, about the truth.
I’ve asked you
TWO
Extremely clear questions.
ONE:
CAN YOU ABIDE BY OUR COMMUNITY’S RULES?
and
TWO:
WERE YOU TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR?
These are questions I asked YOU.
You can answer them – or not.
And you can participate here.
Or not.
The moderation team of Chapo.chat is the moderation team of Chapo.chat
YOU are NOT on it.
Before 35 minutes ago, you’d never participated in our community.
How we run our community is our business, and the business of the people who participate here in good faith.
We don’t allow disrespect; We don’t allow verbal or emotional abuse; We don’t allow people to brigade our community and post off-topic posts and metadrama.
What YOU think you know about our moderation team is informed solely by third-hand hearsay and screenshots released by someone abusing their position, edited and therefore cherry picked to support a narrative.
That narrative is abusive.
It will not be allowed.
No one will be allowed to come here and back-seat run our community, or light torches and brandish pitchforks.
So now,
THREE Questions:
The first two still must be answered,
and
AM I PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE NOT A MODERATOR OF THIS COMMUNITY?
I was also very proud that my "you didn't critique, you GISH GALLOPED" copy pasta I made was used in this thread: https://hexbear.net/post/61693
Feels good. Although I wasn't the first to post about that exchange.
If you're up against a debate nerd powerful enough to use "Poisoned the Well" instead of a mere "Ad hominem", well, best be on your guard.
Yes but it you do that you won't get a response as beautiful as this:
No, thanks. I wasn’t here to make an argument. I was here to challenge people to think critically.
No one – not your friends, not the general public here – did so.
You’re the only one that said “Hey wait a minute” and applied the first, elementary steps of rhetorical analysis to the discussion here.
Everyone else was just arguing a side for imaginary brownies.
You, at least, have the potential to do it right. You have the education and the willingness to speak the truth.
Don’t let overtures of friendship blind you from reasoning to the truth.
Good luck.
I wrote a lengthy treatise on logical fallacies 20 years ago.
Here's the problem: Nothing here has risen even to the level of "debate". I'm not here "debating" anything with you, because you keep slapping yourself in the rhetorical face and/or testicles. You're failing to achieve lift-off. This is a non-starter.
What I'm saying here is that you're incapable of debate, and incapable of accepting or understanding actual criticism, and think that poisoning the well, strawmen, and ad hominems are standins for meaningful discussion.
This is not a debate. This is scorn.
TWO QUESTIONS
I do kind of love her caffeine pill mom energy, don't tell anyone
dont worry about what you were, i was a both sides pro-putin centrist as a teen, we become better with time
Yeah.
Reparations are awesome.
Half-ass reparations are way, way worse than nothing.
What do you think "reparations" means in the context of our society? In a society where the idea of any form of government or collective action is viewed as insane, and everything is designed to be as griftable and opaque as possible, why do you think that "reparations" would mean anything other than cash transfers? That's the only kind of government program that anyone can envision!
Yeah how do you even go about compensating people for hundreds of years of slavery and oppression? Knowing our government it would be a one time check for $450 dollars.
liberals think everything is a relative comparison, like helping only counts when it balances out power structures that aren't class. by this logic, healthcare to all people could be bad because racist whites also get it
My favorite line from the primary was
Why do you want to abolish the death penalty? Do you really want Dylan Roof to live that much
If we can’t even vote M4A into existence I don’t think they’ll be able to make all crimes legal any time soon.
Lol imagine if voting was so powerful that a tiny percentage of the population that is marginalised could just strike down the entire penal code by just voting.
“If we did that there would be nothing to stop them from voting to make their crimes legal!!”
Yes. :yes-chad:
Hello, I'm Rem, speaker for the congressional burgler caucus, I'm whipping votes for making it legal to steal your TV, can I count on your vote?
Is that how they see it going down??
As if the death penalty in the US today would be issued to people like Dylan Roof rather than by people like him.
Why do you want to give back voting rights, do you want the BOSTON BOMBER to vote?
like during the primary when they said Bernie's plan to cancel all student debt was bad because it would cancel the debt of rich kids, Dems dont even want to fix the economy, if they canceled all student debt, students would buy more stuff helping the consumer economy of the US, i cant wait for the dems to blame everything on the republicans for the next 4 years
liberals think everything is a relative comparison, like helping only counts when it balances out power structures that aren’t class. by this logic, healthcare to all people could be bad because racist whites also get it
This is the message that "the Left" has been pushing for 60 years. Why would they think anything else? We told them that!
he was calling Jimmy dore a Fed for saying the demsocs should use their congressional power to make demands
That's very strange because this shit sounds exactly like the sort of movement dividing work a fed would actually do.
He was one of the most prominent faux-radical voices saying, “we’ve got to go all in on Biden, the cheeto is a FASCIST.”
People like Dixon make me see some upshot to Trump losing, in that radlibs will demobilize and stop claiming to be the legitimate resistance against injustice.
Right? This whole conversation is fucking stupid. The Squad can not vote for Pelosi or vote for her, it doesn't fucking matter because we don't have any power, and building that isn't gonna come from pointlessly micromanaging the 9 demsocs in office
Why or? We should be pushing for "and" as well as some other things as the bare minimum. They're framing social progress as austerity now...
Intersectionality at work y'all! Good thing we've spent 60 years "speaking truth to power"
It's not even intersectionality, that would imply a class and gender angle as well as a race angle.
It's bad politics but I agree in principal that reparations should be prioritised over M4A - reparations to black Americans but also to every victim of American imperialism, including native nations being returned their lands (necessitating the dissolution of the United States) and the turning-over of the profits of every large multinational to the workers of their manufacturies, then the leveling of all of the infrastructure of government and the disbandment of the military, in the interest of reparative justice. Like, morally speaking I mean. So I guess I agree with Dixon on that level but it's not great politics, M4A is popular and those two policies as he conceives them are not in a zero-sum competition
Like I said it's bad politics and the reparations have to be on a scale unimaginable in the political reality of the US. But put it this way: let's say instead of events well out of the hands of actual Brits leading to both happening (imperfectly as they did happen), you were faced with a choice between decolonization or founding the NHS in the postwar UK. The NHS is probably the best thing the UK ever produced, and it wouldn't mean beans if it were between that and dissolving the empire. Now obviously that's meaningless in terms of actually understanding what happened in the UK, but in the perfect invisible realm of morality, which is the more imperative in terms of making the world better?
Not solely reparations for slavery no but if you read my post I was talking about a little more than a check for a little more than just black Americans lol, that was also my point. It may be hard to tell but if read carefully is a criticism of Dixon as well as social democracy
I can and I did 😎. In terms of my contribution in the political sphere, you're right and I understand that it makes more sense to work towards improving the living standards of those suffering around me, so I do try to do that. I don't think I have said otherwise although I was not as clear about that as I should have been at first (I agree with Joy Gray in this thread and in lots else). Thats good politics. Truth is though repairing the damage done to the people of the world by America is more important to me and should be more important to everyone. When my teeth fall out and my fingernails bleed and I lose my mind from lack of health insurance I will still believe that. If I starve I will believe that. If I thought I could advance that end by dying I would die. If I could take from every American a single eye and for each one restore sight to anyone she blinded, I would ask to take two. If I could burn down one American house to unbomb one Iraqi house, I would burn until each bomb used to level that country was undropped and I would probably burn some more for good measure.
We can narrow it though to bring it down from the lofty height of 'destroying America' to something more reasonable but just as impossible. Lets say there was a plan for reparations that could actually address the lasting effects of slavery in America, more or less completely. If it weren't contradictory to that end (since robust social programs do address racial inequity) I would trade M4A for that, I would trade Social Security, I would trade the interstate system, I would trade the New Deal, I would trade Amtrak. I would doom every American to a century of squalor or of foreign domination, an era of national shame and insecurity, if in doing it slavery could somehow be undone. In fact that it will help to achieve that even a little is a huge reason for me in supporting M4A in the first place.
Of course, nothing is so simple. There is no such choice actually being presented. And I know some of my reasons for feeling this way are irrational. I do think there are rational reasons to feel like this - how safe will M4A be while the evil empire fueled by and built on a foundation of suffering is still responsible for administrating it, for example - but it is my moral stance anyway, and I will tell you two reasons why: M4A would only help Americans whereas reparations for America's crimes would help the health of most of the world, to say nothing of sparing future injury; also, (although I hate pokemon-type internet ideology labeling so please forgive me) because I consider myself a communist and not a socdem lmao
you got me on the defensive so bad that I missed a chance to point out you did the "slavery ended 150 years ago" thing like that isn't the standard MAGA response, and also a really just reparations program would benefit more than just black people because our economic fates are entwined, if I accepted your vulcan "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" premise, which I don't, and if it were a response to the point I was actually making, which it wasn't. Quite a bad post I think but sorry for double replying
Yeah and it's not a coincidence and they in reality were never in conflict because the empire wasn't at that point profitable for the state, and also decolonization wasn't Britain's doing but something their subject nations seized. My hypothetical isn't at all historically valid I was just using it to illustrate what I think is a pretty uncontroversial point here, which is that social democracy for the imperial core alone is less important than redressing the historical injustice of the empire; which is to say, reparations are more important than M4A, politics aside
Dixon's point is dont make dems look bad, he probably doesnt care about reparations, the dissolution of the United States is something i want but this radlib just want to protect their team from progressives making demands
Dixon is just speaking out of pure class interest. He will benefit from reparations, at least how he sees the term "reparations", because he's a black man. He doesn't give a shit about M4A because he has a good job and health insurance, and besides, he survived without it, those poor suckers can just keep whining. Don't fuck up his bag.
If he was serious he would've at least supported Mariam Williamson since she was literally the only person running who had reparations as a serious priority. Instead he just mocked her and her supporters throughout the primary.
He's serious about getting his bag, like all media figures.
Yeah I agree more with Joy Gray about the politics, and I sincerely doubt that Dixon is talking about anything of the right scale, but just morally speaking, M4A should be secondary as a goal to correcting the injustices of America's past. Like if in the 50s the UK could choose between (hypothetically speaking since neither was perfect) between decolonization and the NHS, then fuck the NHS really. And I think the NHS is great. It wasn't zero-sum then though just like it isn't here; M4A is a form of racial justice, but just trying to get priorities straight that's where I am
IDK why you're getting downvoted. We totally should dissolve the USA as our first priority.
