This is a leaked video from Blackwater in Iraq. It's some horrifying shit - they're just driving into town running over people and shooting random people for fun. Obviously the content is shocking, so careful if you're not ready to watch this. Also, imagine the shit they did that wasn't filmed/leaked.
I fully understand the anger but strong disagree. Nobody deserves torture or death. What they deserve is to be incarcerated in a prison with some measure of comfort and dignity (so, unlike the ones in most nations right now), to try and rehabilitate them. And if that's impossible, until they die of natural causes.
They may be monsters; we're not.
I really doubt child-murders are capable of rehabilitation, especially adult child-murders. Could Ted Bundy be rehabilitated?
Probably not; and he still deserves to be housed in dignity because he's a human being. There can be no compromise on basic human rights. Again, he may be a monster but we're not.
Why do you think basic human rights must be extended to these people? I’m not necessarily disagreeing here, because I don’t believe in the death penalty either. But housing them with dignity seems excessive. Will something bad happen if we make an exception with child-murders? Like there will be a slippery slope or something, and soon nobody will have human rights?
Because they're not negotiable, to me. You start to exclude certain people from such rights, and pretty soon there's a risk such exclusions are enlarged to other group of people.
But that's basically the slippery slope argument of course; yet it's not the only reason to me. Many of the child murderers you talk about, for example, while fully responsible, arrived at their actions due to truly fucked up pasts. Society often does have a measure of responsibility for them ending up this way.
Hard disagree. Might not be popular on here, but this is exactly what the death penalty is for. Few men get to their position in general and when they got there they decided war crimes were okay, killing people for the highest bidder was okay, killing people for imperialism was okay.
Normal troops I won't get into, but if there is a group that unapologetically needs to face the full consequences of their actions it is absolutely any of the special forces, and mercs.
I understand where you're coming from, but the death penalty is monstrous and goes against basic human rights. I don't see it personally as compatible with leftist thought.
I think your understanding of the death penalty is clouded by the way it's typically used in the west, which is absolutely bullshit. We always hear stories about someone being put to death and then later finding evidence proving their innocence, I understand the hesitation.
This is not that at all. I'm not just someone who wants the death penalty in general, I'm saying war crimes is where I draw the line. Period.
You misunderstand; even if there was absolutely no doubt on Earth someone was guilty of such crimes - like absolutely 100% no possibility of them being not guilty, I would still be against it. A state/community should never assassinate someone that doesn't represent an immediate risk to others (such as if he's been arrested and incarcerated), period. Again, I think human rights are paramount.
About the only case where I could see it being applied, though, is in extreme cases where said community definitely cannot afford the resources to properly house such people to put them aside/try to rehabilitate them without greatly damaging the rest of the community (which definitely isn't the case in our modern societies - as a stupid scenario to illustrate: think a group of people stranded on a desert island, for example, and incapable to afford keeping such a person alive securely without endangering their survival - killing them would still be a tragedy, but an understandable one).
Who exactly do you think people who commit war crimes like black water, green berets, and navy seals are? I don't understand why you're comparing them to regular people. No, these are people who have been specifically trained by the most powerful governments on this planet to be as brutal as humanly possible in order to achieve objectives leading to conquest in the name of capitalism, imperialism, and white Supremacy. If you want to know who the most indoctrinated people on this planet are look no further because it's not us with our copies of state and revolution in our rooms, it's these guys.
This is not 18 year old johnny who had no chance to find a job so he joined the army and was given a rifle, these are men who joined because the paycheck is a bonus. And a lot of the time they fully admit to that.
On this, I agree fully. But the fact there were indeed indoctrinated tends in my mind to strengthen my position on the death penalty: without that indoctrination, they would likely be much better people. Society does have some measure of responsibility on why they ended up this way (both due to that indoctrination and the general horror, brutality and individualistic mindset of our modern capitalistic societies). Assassinating them seems therefore to shirk that responsibility. They're in the middle of firing on civilians ? by all means shoot them to stop them and save lives. They've already been arrested and are no longer a direct and present risk ? no murdering them.
Moreover, at least for some of them I believe such indoctrination can be reversed (but again, even if not).
That's exactly why I made the stipulation that these men in particular should be subject to the death penalty. They are not like the general public anymore, thats why the general public shouldn't be subject to that level of punishment in the first place.
Saying we shouldn't subject them to the possibility of the death penalty because they were indoctrinated is completely ignoring the fact that they specifically took themselves outside of our society to seek out that indoctrination.
Even then when they come back what do they do? They set up defense firms because all they've ever done is kill people their entire adult lives. They literally come back home to spread that indoctrination to the general public. Don't believe me? Go look up any number of training youtube channels set up by navy seals, green berets, army rangers, and the "defense contractor"
Tactical rifleman, tactical Hyve, warrior poet society just to name a few.
Capital punishment is not socialism.
Like I said in my other comment capital punishment should essentially only be used in the case of war crimes. I do believe people can be rehabilitated in 99% of cases.
War crimes are the exception not the rule.
So stick them in a less comfortable holding facility with the understanding that they may not be rehabilitated.
If its truly punishment you're after a life of reflection will truly be worse than death. And if they're true sociopaths - fine, they won't care either way. Better to let them rot than to be killed and sow the seeds of future fascist mythologisation.
A weak old person is anathema to reactionary martyrdom, imo.
Would you do that for the SS? Go ahead and sit there and tell me from your high horse that you wouldn't give members of the SS the death penalty.
guess the Jewish partisans that rose up and killed Nazi occupiers after the Axis lost shoulda just put em in a holding cell
That’s fine, we need a transition period anyway.
No if they show their faces in public someone should just put a bullet in them and be done with it.
Same thing for all these fucking chuds that get off. Justice system won’t fix it, people should.