Saying shit like this is revolting and bigoted.
We've a bit of a mess over in Irish twitter now because a rake of dopey yanks have waded in and started saying mad shit about how travellers are white therefore they don't face the same kind of oppression they do.
Irish travellers face racialised, systemic, and rampant bigotry everyday. Your history and dynamics don't apply here lads, wading in and trying to apply that framework is a joke and makes you look like cunts.
Now, I know I don't have to worry about this shite here, most of you are sound and not libs, but it needs to be said. Some of the shite I'm seeing yerwan in the screen up there along with her lib cheering section saying about travellers is revolting.
I know I don’t have to worry about this shite here, most of you are sound and not libs
Dunno mate, a lot here are infected with the yank brain
First time I heard about those Travellers people I was really amazed, not because of their way of life, but because of the parallelism with Roma.
Also, is "tinkers" a slur?
Yank is a slur but Americans deserve it.
Rhymes with septic tank for a reason.
Yeah, it's not the worst one but I belive that it's considered very demeaning.
Oh,
Also also: how much can you really travel in Ireland? I mean the max distance is 489 km, in some few years you have been to every place.
There's a series of halting sites around thr country that they bop between. They also have annual festivals and gatherings. They also bop over to the UK frequently, dunno how brexit is gonna affect that.
A lot of travellers are settled these days, too
Also, is “tinkers” a slur?
depends on the context
Eh, good question. It's an old term, back in R Jordan's day it would have just been the default
The wheel of time included travellers? I only read the first
Also, in Kingkiller Chronicle the Kvothe dude people was def Travellers
Ye they had a cool pacifist tribe that were cm inspired by nomad peoples
just respect our right to prohibit you from using any land whatsoever, and we'll respect your right to live in accordance with all our other values that are similarly contrary to your continued existence! 😤
you can send death threats to people who talk about property rights like they're real. it's okay. you can just do it.
Does "traveller" have some special meaning that I'm not aware of, or is this a bit?
It still fucking wrecks my head how the hate for Roma/Travellers/Nomads in general boils down to "I hate you because your house moves around"
Just random speculation, but I guess the concern is about accountability. If your neighbor beats somebody up or takes something or whatever other bad thing, you can go hold them accountable. If a nomad does the same thing, they might be gone in the morning and beyond your reach.
Of course, the real reason is the same as any racism, it's useful to have an "other" to dehumanize for various reasons.
If your neighbor beats somebody up or takes something or whatever other bad thing, you can go hold them accountable. If a nomad does the same thing, they might be gone in the morning and beyond your reach.
This was likely a huge reason for prejudice historically. Consider how recently you could effectively escape responsibility for a serious crime by moving two towns over, and consider that the vast majority of human history was like that. The closure rate for murders today is still only about 60%; imagine how easy it was to get away with that in 1700 if you just left town.
Of course, merely suspecting that someone could get away with crime more easily is no excuse for bigotry. I do think you're spot-on here about the historical origins of prejudice against nomadic people, though.
A lot of Romani-specific antiziganism stemmed from the idea we were inherently criminals from the start, therefore being able to move around wasn’t wanted. Rather than “you can move and then easily commit crimes” but moreso “you commit crimes and then move” if that makes sense. Many laws in the middle ages said gypsies could be put to death if entering or leaving certain countries.
Consider how recently you could effectively escape responsibility for a serious crime by moving two towns over,
This is a big reason why vendettas were a big thing in the past. Cops or whatever “law enforcement” existed at the time could do shit outside of your town, so if some fucker murdered your dad or uncle the only way you had any chance of punishing him was to take it upon yourself to hunt the guy down.
I used to think it was mostly movie BS, but I told an interesting I old west history a few years back and, no, some dude spending half a decade trying to hunt down some guy who stabbed his brother in a bar fight was a pretty common thing. Part of the reason why law enforcement agents like Marshals and Rangers who could cross state lines was to try and reduce this cuz these revenge trip guys would end up killing who had the same name or looked similar half the time.
How dare they not base their entire existence on a plot of land they claim lordship over and compare their lawns and flower beds to their neighbor's whom they secretly despise.
Eh, I wouldn’t over romanticize being nomadic, especially being nomadic while living in a land of mostly settled people. It has a lot of downsides.
Indigenous Irish minority, sometimes called gypsies but that's a controversial term I think
Yeah that's because they are not related to the Romani, they are Irish. Traveler origins are still debated, but I think the current consensus is that in their primary form they emerged as a part of a more pastoralist part of the Gaelic community that was marginalized during the English conquests of Ireland.
British Nomadic group of unknown but mostly Celtic (possibly pre-Celtic) origin. Their lifestyle is similar to the Romani but there is only limited crossover between them.
Irish travellers are specifically the indigenous people of Ireland, predating the Gales. They even have their own language.
You sure? Wikipedia say that genetic analysis points to them being an Irish ethnic minority. The pre-Gaelic theory seems marginal...
Oh really? I must read up on it. There was people here before the Gaels, but I suppose they weren't travellers then!
Irish have it bad.
Poles have it worse.
Slavs... oh lawd. Just try not to be slavic.
