So we're assuming M4A has been passed in this scenario? Then the working class is significantly more powerful as workers are no longer chained to their employer's health plans, we've increased the baseline level of care we think all people are deserving of, there's an enormous skin on the wall for whatever leftist movement pushed M4A through, and people have more faith in their ability to change their government for the better (because they just did).
It's far easier to challenge American imperialism in this situation than in the current one, and that's assuming the American left (which already is shot full of anti-imperialist sentiment, concern for immigrants, and opposition to the U.S. war machine) just flat-out ignored foreign policy for a decade.
No, I said that half the country thinks Socialism is Social Democracy and it's good. You somehow believe that what half the country wants has literally anything to do with what legislation is passed.
Look, I can't turn your chicken shit hypothetical into a chicken salad hypothetical. You started with an unrealistic scenario, then implied people would be thinking deeply about Social Democracy despite not having even one basic part of it (again, unrealistic), then went and congratulated yourself when I tried to make some sense of your jibberish.
My point is that misleading people about what Socialism is is not going to lead them or us to Socialism, it will teach people that they can vote for Democrats to do it and that it will not involve any sacrifice or hard decisions. We all get free healthcare, don't ask how.
Extrapolating "I want people to think of countries they like when they hear socialism" to this is a stretch at best. It's assuming the worst intentions and worst possible outcomes. That's needlessly pessimistic -- we're getting nowhere if that's how we criticize people who actually go out and try to move us left.
It's a pattern. Obama endorsing her, meeting with those Bolivian coup supporters, deferring to party leadership on Venezuela, sanctioning China. At worst she's an active anti-Communist and at best she's a Social Democrat who is learning to operate Democratic Party machinery and being changed by it.
Again, this is reading the worst possible intentions into small (and mostly symbolic, if meaningful at all) actions, and ignoring all evidence to the contrary. We will fail if we treat each other like this.
So we're assuming M4A has been passed in this scenario? Then the working class is significantly more powerful as workers are no longer chained to their employer's health plans, we've increased the baseline level of care we think all people are deserving of, there's an enormous skin on the wall for whatever leftist movement pushed M4A through, and people have more faith in their ability to change their government for the better (because they just did).
It's far easier to challenge American imperialism in this situation than in the current one, and that's assuming the American left (which already is shot full of anti-imperialist sentiment, concern for immigrants, and opposition to the U.S. war machine) just flat-out ignored foreign policy for a decade.
Hahah yeah man we live in a Democracy where what people want matters. We're definitely gonna get M4A, just keep waiting!
You gave the hypothetical you fucking goof
No, I said that half the country thinks Socialism is Social Democracy and it's good. You somehow believe that what half the country wants has literally anything to do with what legislation is passed.
Look, I can't turn your chicken shit hypothetical into a chicken salad hypothetical. You started with an unrealistic scenario, then implied people would be thinking deeply about Social Democracy despite not having even one basic part of it (again, unrealistic), then went and congratulated yourself when I tried to make some sense of your jibberish.
What the fuck even is your point?
My point is that misleading people about what Socialism is is not going to lead them or us to Socialism, it will teach people that they can vote for Democrats to do it and that it will not involve any sacrifice or hard decisions. We all get free healthcare, don't ask how.
Extrapolating "I want people to think of countries they like when they hear socialism" to this is a stretch at best. It's assuming the worst intentions and worst possible outcomes. That's needlessly pessimistic -- we're getting nowhere if that's how we criticize people who actually go out and try to move us left.
It's a pattern. Obama endorsing her, meeting with those Bolivian coup supporters, deferring to party leadership on Venezuela, sanctioning China. At worst she's an active anti-Communist and at best she's a Social Democrat who is learning to operate Democratic Party machinery and being changed by it.
Again, this is reading the worst possible intentions into small (and mostly symbolic, if meaningful at all) actions, and ignoring all evidence to the contrary. We will fail if we treat each other like this.