Richard Wagner died before the Nazi party existed, he wasn't a nazi. I have no idea why Wagner group was named that - tbh a ton about Wagner is very mysterious. But no, I've never seen any evidence that Wagner group were Nazis.
I despise a whole lot about the post-Soviet government of Russia. But yeah, I completely support Russia in their noble war of self-defense against the fascist "west." And that's is, afaik, basically the majority opinion on this website. What the fuck are you doing here lib?
I haven't looked up Wagner in a while. I don't think I ever ran in to why it's called that.
afaik, basically the majority opinion on this website.
Afaik most people treat this as an "Enemy of my Enemy" thing. NATO is much, much worse than Russia. This war can weaken NATO. NATO winning is very, very bad because it reinforces NATO/US hegemony and would give NATO access to vast new natural resources as they carve up Russia, to say nothing of the massively increased risk of nuclear war as Russia disintegrates. A victory for Russia, especially a decisive victory, could greatly weaken NATOs position in the world. That would open up the possibility of multipolarity, which could create space for left movements to grow without being hunted down and destroyed by the US/NATO. It would give China more room to maneuver, as well as less powerful communist states. It might increase the chance of the US balkanizing, which would be horrific for those of us who live here but has a chance of benefiting the world.
Afaik very few people support Russia, but we recognize that a Russian victory is the most desirable outcome of this farce. Preferably sooner than later given the horrific amount of death and destruction.
Things are already badly fucked - Ukraine is firmly in the grip of fascism and the war has greatly advanced the cause of international fascism. It's strengthened the fascist position across Eastern Europe. The EU and US are both supporting the Double Holocaust narrative openly now. It is likely that weapons from Ukraine will flood Europe over the coming years facilitating terror and violence.
In terms of geopolitics, Russia is the least-bad guys. Nothing more, nothing less.
Things are already badly fucked - Ukraine is firmly in the grip of fascism and the war has greatly advanced the cause of international fascism. It's strengthened the fascist position across Eastern Europe. The EU and US are both supporting the Double Holocaust narrative openly now. It is likely that weapons from Ukraine will flood Europe over the coming years facilitating terror and violence.
I don't think you can blame this on the war. This is just something becoming more of itself under pressure/heat. If you put sea water on boil it's going to become saltier. You can't blame Russia for the already existing contradictions and fascism of the west coming to a head
I don't blame Russia. NATO has been working towards this war since it was founded. The war was used to purge dissident elements in Ukraine and has been used as a cause celebre for fascism. That's all to the advantage of NATO, and NATO instigated the war by constantly pushing strategic encirclement of Russia.
I'm pretty sure the dominant position is critical support. It's just that criticism of Russia is not that frequent because discussion of the war with libs is almost always in a context that assumes NATO framing. At least in the news mega people are dunking on the Russians regularly.
This. Libs don't care that the Communist Party of Russia is a nationalist joke, or that smaller communist groups are largely suppressed, or that the left in Ukraine has been suppressed if not actually liquidated, or that Leftists across eastern Europe are being suppressed by new laws and increasingly brazen fascist regimes. All they care about is the bogus good guys bad guys narratives. They're openly hostile to the concept of geopolitics or really any complexity at all.
I completely support Russia in their noble war of self-defense against the fascist "west."
What is it about Russian capitalism that you like so much? Which of their anti-LGBTQ laws do you find more appealing than the west's?
Not supporting Ukraine is one thing (which I think is the actual majority opinion on this website), but rooting for Russia is an entirely different thing.
My position is that I do not give a shit who wins because they're both fascist.
What is it about Russian capitalism that you like so much? Which of their anti-LGBTQ laws do you find more appealing than the west's?
Nothing, I already established that.
My position is that I do not give a shit who wins because they're both fascist.
Liberal nonsense. They aren't. Further, Russia isn't the global hegemon, they aren't the power holding up the capitalist-imperialist world system. The US is. In this war, the Ukrainians are US proxies. The victory of Russia over NATO is a good thing for all the oppressed and marginalized people of the Earth. NATO victory would be catastrophic. Honestly, I despise liberals like you so fucking much. Normally I expect shit takes like this from federated shitheads. What are you doing here?
How many laws criminalizing the self-expression of LGBT individuals does it take before a country becomes fascist? What about industrial capitalist collusion with the government? How much of that before you're fascist?
In my eyes, the instant Yeltsin divvied up the state industries and created the oligarchs, he created an inextricable bond between private capital and the state.
Fascism isn't when there's a "private" economy and a "state" economy and they kiss in the closet. I'm sorry but this is just infantile. Fascism is the war footing of the bourgies in a class war. It's a specific thing. All capitalist states on Earth have "an inextricable bond between private capital and the state". They run the state! Capital controls the state in all capitalist nations. That doesn't make it fascism, it makes it capitalism. Fascism is a subset of that which requires anti-communism and violent privatization and destruction of labor. Under Putin's administration Russia has actually done the opposite, re-nationalizing much of what the Yeltsin gang sold off and privatized and improving labor rights from where they were in the 90s 'liberalization' period.
As for LGBT rights, plenty of capitalist nations (non-imperialist ones too) have reactionary social views due to economic collapse and educational collapse. The 90s really did a number on the population of all ex-soviet states, the US spread blackest reaction to all of them but especially Ukraine where it continued its decades long project aerodynamic and worked on taking direct NATO control with Nazi proxies. Consider Palestine, Afghanistan or Iraq. They are not "fascists" because they have reactionary social views. They are socially reactionary, but that's not sufficient for fascism. You are extremely imprecise with your words.
Being systemically homophobic is not what fascism is, though we expect it in a fascist state. That's like asking "how many claws does this need before you admit that it's a cat?" When you are talking about a falcon. This might surprise you, but medieval France wasn't fascist either.
Your definition of fascism describes every single neoliberal government on the planet. This lets you rationalize fence sitting in any situation where you think you can get away with it.
Every state use violence to sustain itself, not sure why you think this is a particularly interesting own. Russia is a Liberal capitalist state under attack from the global hegemonic empire and its proxies. Just like Gadaffi's Libya was, or Syria's Assad, or Sadam's Iraq. In all these cases, we oppose the American empire in it's imperialism. You cannot extend the same courtesy to Russia because your brain has been poisoned by 7 years of russiagate hysteria from liberals and 100 years of anti-communist red scare propaganda in your culture
Russia should achieve victory in this war against imperialists. We can criticize Russia's domestic and internal policies, but geopolitically they are in the right. Seems you have a hard time getting onboard with even critical support against your empire
We can, and should, criticize Russia's very bad domestic policies. But what does that have to do with me asking for any evidence of Nazis on the Russian side? Still waiting for any evidence btw.
Maybe. I've just seen, for over a year now, people use the allegation that wagner were nazis to "bothsides" the issue of ukraine being full of nazi military units; but with no proof, it's always just asserted to be true. It's very annoying. Especially given the recent even greater uptick in libs embracing nazism.
My take mostly has to do with me assuming most people (of any nationality) who volunteer for military service (for any nation) are inherently fascistic.
I feel like I just got beat up in a back alley because I got the password wrong.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, that isn't my intention here. I don't think people of any nationality are inherently fascistic. I do think that the Ukrainian state is currently, in fact, a Nazi state, that it has openly Nazi military units, etc. Liberals who support Ukraine like to excuse this fact by alleging that Wagner are also Nazis, so there are Nazis on bothsides (except Russia is actually worse, and so on and so on). The person I was responding to deployed this standard lib bullshit. So I asked for proof that there were Nazis on the Russian side. That wasn't bait. I literally want people to either provide that proof, or to shut the fuck up about their being "Nazis on both sides." I think anybody talking about "Nazis on both sides" should be banned for being a Nazi apologist (which is what they are doing), unless they provide some proof that that's actually true.
Still waiting for a source on their being nazis on the Russian side. People keep alleging this, but never provide any evidence.
In b4 Dmitry Utkin
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who got purged and killed by putin lmao
The mercenary group named after Hitler's favorite composer aren't Nazis?
Some of y'all actually uncritically support Russia, huh?
Wild.
Richard Wagner died before the Nazi party existed, he wasn't a nazi. I have no idea why Wagner group was named that - tbh a ton about Wagner is very mysterious. But no, I've never seen any evidence that Wagner group were Nazis.
I despise a whole lot about the post-Soviet government of Russia. But yeah, I completely support Russia in their noble war of self-defense against the fascist "west." And that's is, afaik, basically the majority opinion on this website. What the fuck are you doing here lib?
I haven't looked up Wagner in a while. I don't think I ever ran in to why it's called that.
Afaik most people treat this as an "Enemy of my Enemy" thing. NATO is much, much worse than Russia. This war can weaken NATO. NATO winning is very, very bad because it reinforces NATO/US hegemony and would give NATO access to vast new natural resources as they carve up Russia, to say nothing of the massively increased risk of nuclear war as Russia disintegrates. A victory for Russia, especially a decisive victory, could greatly weaken NATOs position in the world. That would open up the possibility of multipolarity, which could create space for left movements to grow without being hunted down and destroyed by the US/NATO. It would give China more room to maneuver, as well as less powerful communist states. It might increase the chance of the US balkanizing, which would be horrific for those of us who live here but has a chance of benefiting the world.
Afaik very few people support Russia, but we recognize that a Russian victory is the most desirable outcome of this farce. Preferably sooner than later given the horrific amount of death and destruction.
Things are already badly fucked - Ukraine is firmly in the grip of fascism and the war has greatly advanced the cause of international fascism. It's strengthened the fascist position across Eastern Europe. The EU and US are both supporting the Double Holocaust narrative openly now. It is likely that weapons from Ukraine will flood Europe over the coming years facilitating terror and violence.
In terms of geopolitics, Russia is the least-bad guys. Nothing more, nothing less.
I don't think you can blame this on the war. This is just something becoming more of itself under pressure/heat. If you put sea water on boil it's going to become saltier. You can't blame Russia for the already existing contradictions and fascism of the west coming to a head
I don't blame Russia. NATO has been working towards this war since it was founded. The war was used to purge dissident elements in Ukraine and has been used as a cause celebre for fascism. That's all to the advantage of NATO, and NATO instigated the war by constantly pushing strategic encirclement of Russia.
Yeah, basically 100% agree with this.
I'm pretty sure the dominant position is critical support. It's just that criticism of Russia is not that frequent because discussion of the war with libs is almost always in a context that assumes NATO framing. At least in the news mega people are dunking on the Russians regularly.
This. Libs don't care that the Communist Party of Russia is a nationalist joke, or that smaller communist groups are largely suppressed, or that the left in Ukraine has been suppressed if not actually liquidated, or that Leftists across eastern Europe are being suppressed by new laws and increasingly brazen fascist regimes. All they care about is the bogus good guys bad guys narratives. They're openly hostile to the concept of geopolitics or really any complexity at all.
The Wagner Group itself is just a PMC with all that implies, but its subgroup DShRG Rusich are quite openly neo-Nazis.
Wikipedia (edited by NATO friendly nerds) says this group contains “several dozen people”
What is it about Russian capitalism that you like so much? Which of their anti-LGBTQ laws do you find more appealing than the west's?
Not supporting Ukraine is one thing (which I think is the actual majority opinion on this website), but rooting for Russia is an entirely different thing.
My position is that I do not give a shit who wins because they're both fascist.
Nothing, I already established that.
Liberal nonsense. They aren't. Further, Russia isn't the global hegemon, they aren't the power holding up the capitalist-imperialist world system. The US is. In this war, the Ukrainians are US proxies. The victory of Russia over NATO is a good thing for all the oppressed and marginalized people of the Earth. NATO victory would be catastrophic. Honestly, I despise liberals like you so fucking much. Normally I expect shit takes like this from federated shitheads. What are you doing here?
Your position is that Russia is not fascist, is that right?
Correct. They are not.
How many laws criminalizing the self-expression of LGBT individuals does it take before a country becomes fascist? What about industrial capitalist collusion with the government? How much of that before you're fascist?
In my eyes, the instant Yeltsin divvied up the state industries and created the oligarchs, he created an inextricable bond between private capital and the state.
Fascism isn't when there's a "private" economy and a "state" economy and they kiss in the closet. I'm sorry but this is just infantile. Fascism is the war footing of the bourgies in a class war. It's a specific thing. All capitalist states on Earth have "an inextricable bond between private capital and the state". They run the state! Capital controls the state in all capitalist nations. That doesn't make it fascism, it makes it capitalism. Fascism is a subset of that which requires anti-communism and violent privatization and destruction of labor. Under Putin's administration Russia has actually done the opposite, re-nationalizing much of what the Yeltsin gang sold off and privatized and improving labor rights from where they were in the 90s 'liberalization' period.
As for LGBT rights, plenty of capitalist nations (non-imperialist ones too) have reactionary social views due to economic collapse and educational collapse. The 90s really did a number on the population of all ex-soviet states, the US spread blackest reaction to all of them but especially Ukraine where it continued its decades long project aerodynamic and worked on taking direct NATO control with Nazi proxies. Consider Palestine, Afghanistan or Iraq. They are not "fascists" because they have reactionary social views. They are socially reactionary, but that's not sufficient for fascism. You are extremely imprecise with your words.
Being systemically homophobic is not what fascism is, though we expect it in a fascist state. That's like asking "how many claws does this need before you admit that it's a cat?" When you are talking about a falcon. This might surprise you, but medieval France wasn't fascist either.
Violent repression of the "other" plus capitalist entanglement with government. That's my definition of fascism.
Russia checks both the boxes. So does the US.
Your definition of fascism describes every single neoliberal government on the planet. This lets you rationalize fence sitting in any situation where you think you can get away with it.
Wow! What a weird opinion for a communist to have!
Why do or think about anything when the world is already fascist am I right fellow commies?/s
Hitler hated tobacco
We should
Sir we all know this word is not actually part of your lexicon
I spent the first 18 years of my life in South Louisiana but go off.
GJ, I could feel the restraint it took to end that sentence at 'off'
what?
Oh I think you're implying that it took effort for me not to misgender you, maybe? Weird thing to say.
Rusich Group
Phenomenal
Edit: So I took the bait. I got beat up. Phenomenal bait.
This ain't bait. Ukraine is a nazi state backed up by the 4th Reich (NATO). Russia isn't.
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Every state use violence to sustain itself, not sure why you think this is a particularly interesting own. Russia is a Liberal capitalist state under attack from the global hegemonic empire and its proxies. Just like Gadaffi's Libya was, or Syria's Assad, or Sadam's Iraq. In all these cases, we oppose the American empire in it's imperialism. You cannot extend the same courtesy to Russia because your brain has been poisoned by 7 years of russiagate hysteria from liberals and 100 years of anti-communist red scare propaganda in your culture
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Russia should achieve victory in this war against imperialists. We can criticize Russia's domestic and internal policies, but geopolitically they are in the right. Seems you have a hard time getting onboard with even critical support against your empire
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We can, and should, criticize Russia's very bad domestic policies. But what does that have to do with me asking for any evidence of Nazis on the Russian side? Still waiting for any evidence btw.
I see your point but for real, this just feels like Crowder and his "change my view" table.
We're better than this.
Maybe. I've just seen, for over a year now, people use the allegation that wagner were nazis to "bothsides" the issue of ukraine being full of nazi military units; but with no proof, it's always just asserted to be true. It's very annoying. Especially given the recent even greater uptick in libs embracing nazism.
My take mostly has to do with me assuming most people (of any nationality) who volunteer for military service (for any nation) are inherently fascistic.
I feel like I just got beat up in a back alley because I got the password wrong.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, that isn't my intention here. I don't think people of any nationality are inherently fascistic. I do think that the Ukrainian state is currently, in fact, a Nazi state, that it has openly Nazi military units, etc. Liberals who support Ukraine like to excuse this fact by alleging that Wagner are also Nazis, so there are Nazis on bothsides (except Russia is actually worse, and so on and so on). The person I was responding to deployed this standard lib bullshit. So I asked for proof that there were Nazis on the Russian side. That wasn't bait. I literally want people to either provide that proof, or to shut the fuck up about their being "Nazis on both sides." I think anybody talking about "Nazis on both sides" should be banned for being a Nazi apologist (which is what they are doing), unless they provide some proof that that's actually true.
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...Jesus christ I feel like I'm on Twitter.
I feel like I'm on reddit