a completely unsourced rant, from the same people that peddled the 'Iraq has WMD's' bullshit.

Some names have been changed.

Was Adrien Zenz one of them?

  • penguin_von_doom [she/her]
    ·
    4 years ago

    The story sounds pretty legit, and reeducation camps are a pretty bad look, of course libs and warhawk will circulate them. The best propaganda is when its true and stories like this dont come out often. This of course doesnt mean that the western media narrative on what is going on is true or correct, but a harrowing individual experience of what is actually there is more effective than a made up story about millions upon millions of detained people.

    The one thing that bugs me about the story is the premise to it. So you sought asylim in a foreign country, and have been away for 10 years, yet still somehow remain an employee of a company there. And despite having no intentions going back you still care about your retirement there. And instead of having them send you the documents by mail, you decide to take a several weeks long trip, into a country you ran away from, that you know is repressing your people,'. Just to sign some documents? I mean people do dumb things all the time, but this does sound very sus.

    So, while the account of the camp sounds legit enough, the resons she gives for getting there not so much.

    • dukeofprunes [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Re education camps are a better way to deal with Islamic fundamentalist terrorism than you know, going to war and killing millions of people.

          • spectre [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Yeah I mostly agree, but I don't think that leaves any of them above criticism. A "necessary evil" is still evil.

            Of course we need to contextualize our criticisms properly, and also be conscious of the company in which we level such criticisms lest we serve as aids to imperial interest.

            • dukeofprunes [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I genuinely can't think of a better way than 're-education', as long as the conditions are good and it's done respectfully. Which from what I have seen and heard is how China is going about it, the things described in this article are obviously bad but then there's no proof that they actually happened and it's not beyond the realms of possibility or precedent that they would be invented to further western anti-china narratives.

              • abdul [none/use name]
                ·
                edit-2
                4 years ago

                To be clear, you can’t think of a better solution to the prospect of extremism than to inter every single person with a beard or a Muslim family member into forced labor camps? Because that’s what they are doing and the official criteria China claims to use is purposefully vague to the point of being useless.

                • dukeofprunes [he/him]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  4 years ago

                  source for the beard thing?

                  also pretty sure the forced labour thing is a zenz creation

                  this is worth a read, a breakdown of when BBC visited these centres (but from an opposing point of view to BBCs bias) - https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab

                  also this is a pretty good watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&feature=youtu.be - a socially awkard man on holiday in xinjiang, observe the uighurs in their natural habitat, dancing in nightclubs and going out for ice cream and shit, better standard of life than i've got here in the uk that's for sure.

                  • abdul [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    https://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words

                    there is no clarity on how the law distinguishes spreading religious faith from “spreading religious extremism.” If a religious preacher advocates abstaining from alcohol, for example, is he spreading faith or extremism? If an Uyghur person speaks about Han Chinese majoritarian domination, or imposition of the Mandarin language, is he or she guilty of “undermining ethnic unity” or “disturbing the social order”? If an Uyghur person wears a beard, or observe a fast during Ramzan, are they hindering “implementation of the country’s cultural systems”?

                    I’d encourage you to read the link in its entirety. It’s China’s own words.

                    • dukeofprunes [he/him]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      definitely food for thought, though i'm not sure i fully agree with some of their conclusions, would need to read the white paper for myself and i'm meant to be working right now...

                      • abdul [none/use name]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        Didn’t think I needed to mention it was in English, but yes, great call out. Read the parts that discuss documents and statements release directly from China.

        • RedFoundry [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Please tell us what solution to Islamic terrorism and separatism you've found that is effective and not distasteful.

    • funkfresh [they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      These aren't "camps" they're entire neighborhoods with better amenities then places I've paid to rent in America

    • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      The story sounds pretty legit

      Yeah, but almost everyone here could write a "pretty legit" sounding account of, say, a DPRK prison camp by reading a few articles that have already been published and embellishing the details. All this without even having set foot in Korea.

      • dukeofprunes [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        it happened to me, kim made me eat dog poo and said my hairstyle was bad

      • penguin_von_doom [she/her]
        ·
        4 years ago

        In the case you can also find the daughters profile, and she talks about her mom, so when I mean pretty legit, I mean, this woman has most likely been in a reeducation camp and most likely experienced these things

        • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          That just means she was detained in some way. Doesn't prove that anything in the article actually happened, including the throw away line on sterilization.

          • funkfresh [they/them]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            Providing birth control and education to minorities is a crime against humanity, what they should doing is encouraging them to have children in poverty so they can grow up damaged by their material conditions and locked away in private prisons to be used as a cheap source of labor

            • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              It's not even that about birth control.

              The author of the article claims she got an injection while in prison. For all we know, it could have just been a flu jab.

              Even if there is a shot you can give a woman to render them permanently infertile (in which case why do women still have to get surgery to get their tubes tied?), and even if the author is now medically infertile as a result, it should be extremely trivial for her to produce a medical certificate or find a physician who can go on record to prove it.

              But that would go against the propaganda tactic of simply begging the question.

              • funkfresh [they/them]
                ·
                4 years ago

                Oh yeah I forgot about her. I thought they were talking about that new headline about Uighur women not being "baby making machines" anymore

    • Punk [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      lol I just commented saying pretty much the same thing. The weird exaggerations and inconsistencies are so annoying cuz I honestly think if they just reported everything straight it'd be fucked up enough on it's own, but the crazy provably false shit and exaggerations in some of the reports just make it so hard to know what's going on that everyone ends up with a different view of what's happening and it's impossible to discuss on the same level.