aaand AOC wants to murder your family (...) they’re gonna burn in hell
That's a strawman.
they’re sellouts (...) they’re all the same as Pelosi
When Pelosi was new congress, [ she was in favor of single payer-healthcare](https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1341867268196560897, but over the years she backed away from it. Why did that happen? Did she become a more morally evil person who just likes to do evil things, or did she become rich, and did she, by being in the democratic party, started playing a tit-for-that game in which genuine left ideas will never win?
The second scenario is happening with AOC and the squad. And it's not all that surprising: all the pressure inside such institutions will lead you in that direction, and only people with very strong ideological convictions who are accountable to a socialist party will be able to withstand that. The current lefties inside congress are atomised individuals without strategic objectives and responsiveness to a socialist organisation. They will fall for the pressure of the democratic machine, and we're seeing that happening in front of our eyes.
This is a hard realisation, it was for me at least, but we have to realise it. To make a comparison: many people who were alive during the civil rights era still are in love with Jim Clyburn, despite the fact that he's no longer the icon he was back then, but just another corporate politician. I do not want us to become like that.
"The anti #forcethevote left claims to have a more sophisticated understanding of power, but #forcethevote understands that Pelosi's power comes from her fundraising prowess. Donors dictate behavior -- not polite behavior. The left will never win at an inside game." https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1345458416345632774
when I say 'power' or 'impotence', I dont mean to say it in terms of the factions within congress; I mean to say it in terms of working class consciousness. there is no solidarity to speak of. as the saying goes theres no such thing as a poor american, they're all just down on their luck millionaires.
gray's approach to supporting ftv was the only approach I could get behind. it was an attitude of, "well, we cant pick and choose our moments, and this might be our moment." but even then, what the fuck was the moment? forcing the vote and having it shut down by something like 300 to 35 in the lower house? if that's our 'moment' you should seriously take a second to consider how free politicians are to serve the interests of capital in the US.
and what fundraising prowess would we have hampered? theres an entire industry of privately held healthcare providers with supply chains that span the globe that would have put their money behind a no.
the ftv movement motivated me to actually start reading theory because it made me realize much of the people I considered to be on 'the left' are ideologically undisciplined folks who benefit from the american empire and just want m4a to increase their quality of life.
A lot of people believed DSA was that, but it's now undeniable that they're not.
throwing your plate of chicken tendies at one of 5 non-ghoulish people in Congress
This is not a serious criticism, but a ridiculous analogy that in no way addresses the points I was making.
born out of impotence.
In a sense I actually agree with this, but because #forcethevote showed that the parliamentary left is impotent, as opposed to what many people believed.
the chicken tendies reference is a criticism based around a ridiculous meme. it makes humor out of the source of rage/anger which is generally impotent. as you said you dont disagree with that point.
the dsa is obligated to hold aoc accountable as their endorsement of her is a big part of why she's in office. but this issue wasn't a big controversy within the dsa, as the issue was purely a matter of tactics, not strategy.
when the dsa only has a right to hold 4 or so congresspeople to account, they cant do a whole lot in terms of tactics because they really cant achieve shit.
if a floor vote had been held, do you think m4a would have been passed? if you answer yes you are wrong. meaning, if you're right, this controversy was a matter of political theater; pure tactics. even its advocates saw it as such.
at the time this controversy was going on, there was a controversy over the 2k checks. keep in mind, most republican voters were outraged over McConnell's refusal to follow trump's recomendation of 2k checks. even then, the Senate agreed near unanimously to vote against holding a vote for 2k checks(around 88 to 12). this is to say, the republicans told their supporters to eat shit, while the democrats tried to deceive their supporters with a performative fight.
if you give a shit about reform through the electoral process, ask yourself why McConnell represents the 3rd most impoverished state in the country. then realize the only difference between him and the democratic establishment is performative woke shit.
tl;dr no hope in america. we're too dumb, glutonous and enriched by imperialism to want to disturb the current order. leftist infighting is also bad, especially when its over a theatrical production.
It is, because he's not saying AOC wants to kill you, that's ridiculous. I don't understand why you insist on defending this point, instead of adressing the analysis which I made? I hope that on this site we all still understand we're comrades who might not agree on everything, but at least argue in good faith.
That's a strawman.
When Pelosi was new congress, [ she was in favor of single payer-healthcare](https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1341867268196560897, but over the years she backed away from it. Why did that happen? Did she become a more morally evil person who just likes to do evil things, or did she become rich, and did she, by being in the democratic party, started playing a tit-for-that game in which genuine left ideas will never win? The second scenario is happening with AOC and the squad. And it's not all that surprising: all the pressure inside such institutions will lead you in that direction, and only people with very strong ideological convictions who are accountable to a socialist party will be able to withstand that. The current lefties inside congress are atomised individuals without strategic objectives and responsiveness to a socialist organisation. They will fall for the pressure of the democratic machine, and we're seeing that happening in front of our eyes.
This is a hard realisation, it was for me at least, but we have to realise it. To make a comparison: many people who were alive during the civil rights era still are in love with Jim Clyburn, despite the fact that he's no longer the icon he was back then, but just another corporate politician. I do not want us to become like that.
where is that socialist party and whats dore done to help build it? and what exactly is dore's ideology?
its 2021 and theres not been one openly marxist politician at the federal level in us history. we dont even have a socialist base lol.
no, throwing your plate of chicken tendies at one of 5 non-ghoulish people in Congress does not help the cause in any way.
FTV was a temper tantrum born out of impotence.
"The anti #forcethevote left claims to have a more sophisticated understanding of power, but #forcethevote understands that Pelosi's power comes from her fundraising prowess. Donors dictate behavior -- not polite behavior. The left will never win at an inside game." https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1345458416345632774
when I say 'power' or 'impotence', I dont mean to say it in terms of the factions within congress; I mean to say it in terms of working class consciousness. there is no solidarity to speak of. as the saying goes theres no such thing as a poor american, they're all just down on their luck millionaires.
gray's approach to supporting ftv was the only approach I could get behind. it was an attitude of, "well, we cant pick and choose our moments, and this might be our moment." but even then, what the fuck was the moment? forcing the vote and having it shut down by something like 300 to 35 in the lower house? if that's our 'moment' you should seriously take a second to consider how free politicians are to serve the interests of capital in the US.
and what fundraising prowess would we have hampered? theres an entire industry of privately held healthcare providers with supply chains that span the globe that would have put their money behind a no.
the ftv movement motivated me to actually start reading theory because it made me realize much of the people I considered to be on 'the left' are ideologically undisciplined folks who benefit from the american empire and just want m4a to increase their quality of life.
A lot of people believed DSA was that, but it's now undeniable that they're not.
This is not a serious criticism, but a ridiculous analogy that in no way addresses the points I was making.
In a sense I actually agree with this, but because #forcethevote showed that the parliamentary left is impotent, as opposed to what many people believed.
the chicken tendies reference is a criticism based around a ridiculous meme. it makes humor out of the source of rage/anger which is generally impotent. as you said you dont disagree with that point.
the dsa is obligated to hold aoc accountable as their endorsement of her is a big part of why she's in office. but this issue wasn't a big controversy within the dsa, as the issue was purely a matter of tactics, not strategy.
when the dsa only has a right to hold 4 or so congresspeople to account, they cant do a whole lot in terms of tactics because they really cant achieve shit.
if a floor vote had been held, do you think m4a would have been passed? if you answer yes you are wrong. meaning, if you're right, this controversy was a matter of political theater; pure tactics. even its advocates saw it as such.
at the time this controversy was going on, there was a controversy over the 2k checks. keep in mind, most republican voters were outraged over McConnell's refusal to follow trump's recomendation of 2k checks. even then, the Senate agreed near unanimously to vote against holding a vote for 2k checks(around 88 to 12). this is to say, the republicans told their supporters to eat shit, while the democrats tried to deceive their supporters with a performative fight.
if you give a shit about reform through the electoral process, ask yourself why McConnell represents the 3rd most impoverished state in the country. then realize the only difference between him and the democratic establishment is performative woke shit.
tl;dr no hope in america. we're too dumb, glutonous and enriched by imperialism to want to disturb the current order. leftist infighting is also bad, especially when its over a theatrical production.
It would be a strawman of most FTV supporters, whom I respect. It's not a strawman of Jimmy Dore.
It is, because he's not saying AOC wants to kill you, that's ridiculous. I don't understand why you insist on defending this point, instead of adressing the analysis which I made? I hope that on this site we all still understand we're comrades who might not agree on everything, but at least argue in good faith.
Jimmy Dore literally said on his show that AOC is trying to prevent Medicare for all from passing. If you really want I can get the clip somehow