If you're anti-sweatshop, you're anti-child.
I don’t make the rules, nor do I believe in them.
At some point you need to self-crit your puritanical views and privilege. Stop trying to take bread out of the mouths of the worst off among us.
I think it's the same argument TBH.
If you're anti-porn yeah you're anti-sex work, but that doesn't mean you're anti the people currently doing sex work, any more than being anti child labour means your anti the children currently doing child labour.
Who's coming after your job, do you think this is about driving you out of business? I think you are completely misunderstanding what people are saying. Do you think people on this sub are stanning FOSTA and Lindsay Graham?
Seriously. Current porn industry is deeply deeply inhumane. COULD porn be safe and healthy? Yeah. Is it right now? Fuck no.
Support SWs, but you dont have to be a customer to do that. In fact your support is more meaningful when you arent.
it's an extremely exploitative industry where women are often forced into doing scenes they don't want to do
yeah but my boss doesn’t force me to choke on dick on camera or engage in abuse scenes
It isn't an act of liberation to commodify the bodies of women and trans people.
The porn industry does that all by itself. I'm not talking about you specifically.
The "left" that keeps trying to fold late-capitalist consumerism back into "it's actually woke though."
At some point you need to self-crit your puritanical views and privilege.
Communists struggle against appeals to either morality (morals change) or puritanism or hedonism. But Communists aim also at de-commodifying the human body which turns desire and human interaction into a financial exchange. The sex industry and sex work is not liberating as some boogie radlibs tell us but instead recreates bourgeois values and ideology: bourgeois men love the sex trade as it allows them easy access to subordinated women. You only need look at the entire tourism industries catered to white colonial men getting access to young women like the Phillipines or Thailand or parts of Africa - who's access to Philipino/Thai women is directly tied to US imperialism, the US military bases installed worldwide and USs monopoly capitals power to remove entire countries from the worldmarket that do not tow the line (DPRK/Cuba/Venezuela/Iran)
Under capitalism I agree that sex work is as alienating and damaging as say being a coal miner (who wrecks their body by middle age).
However, sex work is reactionary. It is an industry of rape of subordinated women. Communists dont struggle against it because it is "immoral" but because it reproduces the bourgeois values and ideology that we wish to overthrow. There's a reason every existing socialist state outlawed prostitution. There's a trend in 'left' circles to refold sexual exploitation back into "wokeness".
Now I'm neither against alcohol or drugs (nor sex work) taken on their own terms. However a brief look through history we can see how imperialism was able to subjugate entire regions by flooding countries with drugs or alcohol. The same can be said of the sex industry that forces entire nations to cater to sex tourist perverts in the Philipines/Thailand/Africa and S America.
From the opium wars in China to the Native reservations in US/Canada/Aus where communities are ruined by alcohol to the sex tourism catered to balding white people in Thailand and the Phillipines
Under those conditions I hundred percent agree with Mao forcing tens of millions of drug addicts into compulsory treatment (using repression where needed) and the rounding up and execution of drug dealers. And I 100 percent agree with their zero tolerance on drugs in 2020 because the CIA has flooded South America/Afghanistan/Yugoslavia with drugs to not only destabilise and destroy those peoples but to use the drug money to finance those overthrows of remotely leftist governments.
If we take that same lens to analyse sex work we can look at the BBC and a documentary they did a few years ago. Reggie Yates explains to the camera that "Russias education is very, very good" as teenagers huddle together in underwear for a chance to be picked as a model.
"And in Soviet times these girls would've had to go to university get a degree and get a job. But they can earn far more than a doctor by being a model."
Reggie Yates, being a liberal, though conflicted at seeing literal children parade themselves in underwear for perverts doesn't quite realise what he's saying yet reveals the liberal nature of value: that girls getting as educated as possible and working in a productive job (like an engineer/doctor etc.) holds no value to him because, for liberals, labour and education are commodities to be bought and sold. "Why even get an education if you cannot profit from it?" is the liberals refrain. You hear this all the time when people study something other than STEM.
Growing up in Britain I would oft hear remarks against Germans how they "loved scat" (sexual play with excrement). It was a kind of inside joke that German people loved scat porn because they were weird. There were multiple references to it in many TV shows/jokes etc.
It wasn't until I was older and learned how West Germany annexed East Germany shipped all of it's industry out of East Germany into West Germany which then forced women with masters degrees into the sex industry where monopoly capital would flood. Forcing women into performing these acts for the perverts in France/Britain and USA.
We see again, the imperialist nature of monopoly capital subordinating a population - using the very legalised sex trade in Germany.
Good post, put it in /c/history please
the rounding up and execution of drug dealers
ironically socialists hate poor people more than their neocolonial business partners who export those drugs in the first place! Reminds me that bit about fascism "treating internal contradictions as an external threat that must be eliminated"
You should read about, what Chinese people refer to, as their 100 years of humiliation comrade
Where, thanks to the British empire (and france and US) the entire country was awash with opium and the average life expectancy was 39. Where special crews of street cleaners would come in the morning to pick up the dead bodies who died from opium and malnutrition during the night.
Yes I support Mao doing that in the 1950s
It is a different context of drug dealers in imperialist countries (and even then some of the context is the same as the ruling class used crack to destroy the black minority in USA)
It's very telling that the moment one's material self-interest is endangered, all of one's leftist ideas go out the window. " It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair. I'm not going to YASS KWEEN the literal commodification of bodies.
I am not anti-porn, but I am anti porn industry. The porn industry is gross and really awful to a lot of people, even moreso than other industries. And in practice a lot of porn acts as an amplifier for a lot of societies problems. Racism is already bad, but racism in porn gets so much worse. Sexism is already bad, but sexism in porn gets so much worse.
I think it's hard to argue that the porn that people consume doesn't affect their attitudes in their daily lives. It's probably not a good thing that people are getting off to racism, sexism, transphobia, etc. I'm anti porn that plays up and furthers these attitudes. However this ends up being quite a large portion of porn.
I guess a reasonable analogy is that I am anti coal mining, but not anti coal miner. Of course a major difference is that ethical porn can exist in principle (and some does exist) while we should not be mining coal whatsoever.
No I mean the racism in porn is even more exaggerated and explicit than racism in real life. Like in a movie they'll stereotype by like having a black guy play a gangster. In porn they'll have a black guy go "I'm gonna rape you with my big black cock."
I'm against stuff like FOSTA. And as I said, I am not anti-porn, but you can't tell me that you think the porn industry (outside of independently produced stuff such as onlyfans) as it stands today is not horrible.
Your argument is correct but it's not an excuse to be racist on an individual level. Racist porn videos should be taken off the internet, just like other types of racist videos.
policing the bodily autonomy of people
They don't have autonomy as capitalist subjects. The makers of that "Blacked" racist cuck porn aren't doing so of their free will (well maybe lol)
Less than 20% of human trafficking is sex trafficking. 99% of sex workers feel less safe with your disingenuous attempts at white saviorism.
I've read the article and ran through the UN report it cites. Which was a global study, unless the "white savior" study that is US-centred.
The less than 20% (19 to be exact) number is good to hide the actual impact of sex trafficking, so let's use the actual number
4,8 million people in the world are victims of sex trafficking. And counting. Girls are disappearing on a daily basis from orphanages where i live as soon as they turn 16. They usually turn up at dutch or swiss brothels.
I would like to see a query with them too.
Genuinely wondering how you feel about porn addiction, and the phenomenon of under-18s counting down the days until they can start an OnlyFans. I think sex work should be seen the same as plying any other kind of trade, but I can't shake the feeling that our access to it should be limited in some way.
Yes it is.
That trash has haunted me for the last 10 years of my life. I have dropped out of university, lost I don't know how many friendships and relationships due to social anxiety, spent years being chronically depressed and anxious. I have erectile dysfunction now, and my only sexual experiences are those from behind a screen looking at people I don't know. I honestly have no real idea what real sex in a relationship is actually like.
You stay in your lane when talking about how porn affects the people who use it, I will stay in mine when it comes to rights for sex workers.
yeh i think having a discussion about the porn/sex work industry can be fruitful, but dismissing porn addition as not real reeks of...misinformation at the very least. humans can get addicted to anything, and some are very harmful. sorry for what you're going through dude. i''m also struggling re:uni, depression, anxiety etc and wanna tell you that we're all in this together.
Yo I'm on your side in this thread but for real you're wrong on this point.
https://old.reddit.com/r/GoonCaves/ (NSFW and very distressing)
First post I saw on there was about a guy saying porn has turned him gay and he only concentrates on the penises now, but he's still straight and also uses slurs against LGBT people. Uhhhhh yeah I'm going to assume that's a pretty bad subreddit as a bi dude
Please no one tell these people about VR porn and how you can watch it using Google cardboard, they'll never leave their caves and probably die of starvation
oh yeah I don't recommend spending any time there. I was just providing an example of porn addiction. I feel so fuckin bad for those freaks
This was something bugging me last time a struggle happened during pornhub getting rid of unverified vids. At the end of the day a corporation got rid of everything they couldn't make profit off of. A fetish voice actress I liked got her vids removed, luckly she had other vids on another site. A lot of peeps in the thread where just like you only need to show your face to be verified and that's it. She didn't and probably has her reasons why.
In another porn thread that day I tried recommending a cool series of interviews from revolutionary lumpen radio on sex work with interviews with sex workers. Don't know how many checked those out.
Anyways solidarity, you probably gonna get a lot of shit here. I think being a swerf is easier to fall into than some of us may realize on the left.
Less to do with better or worse but the idea of where to post. These companies are companies and can set up the conditions of what and who can post. For a while the joke was if you can't post it on youtube go to pornhub. I think the saying goes critical support. Revenge, child and rape got removed and that's good. This still means that the company can change policy at anytime without giving a heads up to the base and everyone has to deal with it. There is no public forum that I can think of online for this. Not suggesting an anything goes libertarian hell pit but more a place where the base can come up with rules like no child, revenge, or rape. As is currently don't think it's possible because a barrier to entry is money. If sex workers and the like made one it be subject to harassment from reactionary right wingers that target sex workers ability to make money.
Some of the most vocal on the original thread were like either you support this or your a pedo selfish creep. Maybe it be best consulting with sex workers for opinions since they the most affected by this. Was reluctant to write but think backing up more marginalized comrades important. Many reasons to go into sex work and think it be good to respect her and others agency and choices. I am aware that under capitalism we don't have no choice but to do what we need to survive.
Will write more but pressed for time will be back.
I agree with a lot of what you, the OP and others in this thread are saying, but to be verified on PornHub you have to send them a picture of your face that only the PornHub admin staff see and will not be public. There are many verified people on there that never show their face in any of their videos on there. Even before the change being verified was required to earn money on that website. I understand not wanting to go though the verification process because you don't trust them, but then using another website or platform is better.
Also yeah don't be a SWERF everyone
I would like to know more about this voice actress in question but don't wanna pry. From what I know she used the site more as a means to host and promote herself. She accepted commissions and scripts for like $15 dollars like on twitter or else where but used the site as a means to put her content out there on a platform. She also got commissions in the comments. Like I said she had a back up and still doing them but I wonder if this kind of thing persists what she do. Don't know how cool Pantheon is with sex work. And only fans takes a cut not to mention competition is pretty huge. She into a niche fetish btw.
I'm anti-porn because the way it exists online promotes the proliferation of invoulentary and child pornography, which you must admit are bad, and because I know people who suffer from porn addiction, and because it doesn't seem like the free sites really kick much back to the stars. I am pro-porn in the sense that I think it is cool
truth
ive already talked about this at length on this board, here's my opinion: https://hexbear.net/post/74758/comment/799478
