If you don’t understand that class struggle is intersectional and want to link arms with boogaloo bois with no talk of de-radicalizing them first
Here's the fundamental misunderstanding. The cooperation between Black Panthers & Young Patriots did not begin at "de-radicalizing" them.
It began as a tenuous political alliance built on their opposition to the Chicago police & the exploitative conditions in the city. The Young Patriots had southern pride, white gang elements during their collaboration with the Black Panther. That changed through mutual struggle with the Black Panthers.
Studying movements such as Boogaloo Boys, and identifying opportunities for political alliances is not class reductionism. It is sound political strategy for a Left-wing movement inside a decaying state. Sometimes it will produce allies, sometimes it will produce broken alliances.
But all of this is in the abstract. The formation "Boogaloo Boys" takes in any city will be radically different.
The question is "we have similar objectives, to what extent does a political alliance make sense?" That question must be answered in every city with a Left-wing and a Boogaloo presence. It seems that the Boogaloo presence in Lansing has found common ground with Left-wing organizations.
I'm under the impression things will continue to become more violent & unstable in the US. I want as few of these armed militias to turn against my community as possible. That will involve negotiations & alliances.
The overall thing that's missing here is Jimmy Dore, supposedly a representative of "the left," interviews someone who represents a far right militia group. I can agree with "if you know a Boogaloo IRL they are worth pushing left," but that's just not what this is. Effectively this is going to be an organizational critical endorsement from "leftist" Jimmy Dore. Look at all the YouTube comments - "THIS is why the faux left & #fraudsquad hate Jimmy."
Since Jimmy fans fucking hate AOC now, what's the next logical step for one of these rightfully angry individuals? "Hey maybe MSM is lying, these Boogaloo pals are kinda like the left but less SJW and they hate AOC." Plus, when a fucking idiot like Jimmy Dore is in charge of the "left perspective," there is no actual leftist thought in the conversation, so giving the spotlight to a rep of an armed far right militia suddenly doesn't seem so crazy. But it is fucking crazy. Not to mention Jimmy Dore fans are probably the LEAST well read leftists online, and the MOST susceptible to far right radicalization.
As far as I can tell, the largest formations of boogaloo boys are just, Radical Liberals. Calling them a far-right militia doesn't feel like an accurate descriptor.
I agree that Jimmy Dore is an idiot, and framing the conversation as "the far-left should unify with the far-right" is insane. The person he was interviewing was not far-right. He are advocating civil liberties, protection for LGBTQ and non-white people, and capitalism. He is the definition of a Radical Liberal. Also, there's no way for boogaloo boys to unify with anyone because they are not actually an organization, it's a pro-gun & anti-government ideology. That ideology attracts a wide range of people, and the formation it will take in any region will look different.
The good faith interpretation of the situation is that left-wing organizations should not instinctively create enemies based on preconceived notions. We are in the worst economic crisis since the Depression. Last time this happened, there was mass extermination of Leftists. We need to be measured in our approach, build our own lines of communication with militias, and de-escalate tensions.
I agree with what you said. Admittedly I did not watch the video, and I'm sure I could listen to it and agree with many points the individual made.
But the Boogaloo individual in the interview is irrelevant. The Boogaloo organization is what is effectively being platformed here, to an angry audience of pseudo, potentially proto-leftists. And on Twitter, Jimmy doesn't even seem to be clear on denouncing the things that Boogaloo as an organization, to the extent that they are one, is about: Race war & shooting up and harassing BLM protestors.
Picture Jimmy in the 30s having an Italian fascist party member on. They would speak about inequality, the rights of the worker, the failure of the state. And they would be correct. The whole white nationalist thing is easily talked around and shelved for the duration of the interview. This would NOT be a win for the left, it would be a moment of far-right radicalization.
You're saying that the left needs to be more open-minded about coalitions to ally against the state & neoliberalism, and I agree with this to an extent. I just don't think this is it.
Boogaloo as an organization, to the extent that they are one, is about: Race war & shooting up and harassing BLM protestors.
Are there any exposes on Boogaloo proving this is a popular current in their politics? The vast majority of information I can find on Boogaloo outside of corporate media points to Radical Liberalism being the most common political trend.
All of the reportsI found on Boogaloo violence were murdering cops, or attempted murders. Also, there was the situation in Michigan, where some people the FBI claimed were boogaloo were caught in the Michigan governor entrapment situation.
Picture Jimmy in the 30s having an Italian fascist party member on. They would speak about inequality, the rights of the worker, the failure of the state.
This is not accurate. The Italian fascist would talk about the Italian race & the need for the Italian people to construct a state to further the race. They would likely speak highly of the work-disciplined labor. However, they would consider trade unionists enemies of the state, and therefore, enemies of the Italian race.
The rhetoric between Italian fascism and the right-Libertarian rhetoric that most boogaloos seem to have is worlds apart.
I agree with this to an extent. I just don’t think this is it
I'm not saying Left-wing organizations should have a blanket pro-boogaloo stance. I'm saying that formations of boogaloos seem interested in cooperating with Left-wing organizations in a positive way. I've been trying to get in contact with people I know in Detroit and Lansing, since the person Dore interviewed claimed they had a working relationship with Left-wing orgs in those cities.
Are there any exposes on Boogaloo proving this is a popular current in their politics? The vast majority of information I can find on Boogaloo outside of corporate media points to Radical Liberalism being the most common political trend.
I don't claim to be an expert on Boogaloo, but from what I've seen, they flash the white power sign, participate in Trump rallies, defend confederate statues, and do "Rittenhouse" shooter drills. I don't think their white supremacist aspect is overblown by mainstream media.
You say they're made up of "Radical Liberalism," which I don't really understand. The most common use of that phrase is essentially middle-upper class radical support for establishment democrats, usually with some social democratic tendency. Boogaloo as a whole does not strike me at all like that. They are "radical liberals" in the sense that they are not communists or anti-capitalists, but I think the more accurate description is a loosely far-right white power ideology, who would much sooner ally with fascists than with any kind of egalitarian project. Right-wing extreme libertarianism can be rhetorically opposed to fascism, but my reading of history shows that this is just not to be trusted. So any individual claiming to be part of Boogaloo that claims "anti-racism" is always going to be an ideological trojan horse.
That said, I would be curious to hear what your left wing org people have to say.
EDIT: This thread has more info on genuine Boogaloo tendencies (i.e fashy, racist, anti-communist etc): https://twitter.com/PapaGlider/status/1353695716082900994
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Here's the fundamental misunderstanding. The cooperation between Black Panthers & Young Patriots did not begin at "de-radicalizing" them.
It began as a tenuous political alliance built on their opposition to the Chicago police & the exploitative conditions in the city. The Young Patriots had southern pride, white gang elements during their collaboration with the Black Panther. That changed through mutual struggle with the Black Panthers.
Studying movements such as Boogaloo Boys, and identifying opportunities for political alliances is not class reductionism. It is sound political strategy for a Left-wing movement inside a decaying state. Sometimes it will produce allies, sometimes it will produce broken alliances.
But all of this is in the abstract. The formation "Boogaloo Boys" takes in any city will be radically different.
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I really think you are missing the point.
The question is "we have similar objectives, to what extent does a political alliance make sense?" That question must be answered in every city with a Left-wing and a Boogaloo presence. It seems that the Boogaloo presence in Lansing has found common ground with Left-wing organizations.
I'm under the impression things will continue to become more violent & unstable in the US. I want as few of these armed militias to turn against my community as possible. That will involve negotiations & alliances.
Uh, the fuck we do, my dude. I don't think race war is on the to-do list of anyone here.
Who, specifically, is trying to start a race war? Don't work with them.
The overall thing that's missing here is Jimmy Dore, supposedly a representative of "the left," interviews someone who represents a far right militia group. I can agree with "if you know a Boogaloo IRL they are worth pushing left," but that's just not what this is. Effectively this is going to be an organizational critical endorsement from "leftist" Jimmy Dore. Look at all the YouTube comments - "THIS is why the faux left & #fraudsquad hate Jimmy."
Since Jimmy fans fucking hate AOC now, what's the next logical step for one of these rightfully angry individuals? "Hey maybe MSM is lying, these Boogaloo pals are kinda like the left but less SJW and they hate AOC." Plus, when a fucking idiot like Jimmy Dore is in charge of the "left perspective," there is no actual leftist thought in the conversation, so giving the spotlight to a rep of an armed far right militia suddenly doesn't seem so crazy. But it is fucking crazy. Not to mention Jimmy Dore fans are probably the LEAST well read leftists online, and the MOST susceptible to far right radicalization.
As far as I can tell, the largest formations of boogaloo boys are just, Radical Liberals. Calling them a far-right militia doesn't feel like an accurate descriptor.
I agree that Jimmy Dore is an idiot, and framing the conversation as "the far-left should unify with the far-right" is insane. The person he was interviewing was not far-right. He are advocating civil liberties, protection for LGBTQ and non-white people, and capitalism. He is the definition of a Radical Liberal. Also, there's no way for boogaloo boys to unify with anyone because they are not actually an organization, it's a pro-gun & anti-government ideology. That ideology attracts a wide range of people, and the formation it will take in any region will look different.
The good faith interpretation of the situation is that left-wing organizations should not instinctively create enemies based on preconceived notions. We are in the worst economic crisis since the Depression. Last time this happened, there was mass extermination of Leftists. We need to be measured in our approach, build our own lines of communication with militias, and de-escalate tensions.
I agree with what you said. Admittedly I did not watch the video, and I'm sure I could listen to it and agree with many points the individual made.
But the Boogaloo individual in the interview is irrelevant. The Boogaloo organization is what is effectively being platformed here, to an angry audience of pseudo, potentially proto-leftists. And on Twitter, Jimmy doesn't even seem to be clear on denouncing the things that Boogaloo as an organization, to the extent that they are one, is about: Race war & shooting up and harassing BLM protestors.
Picture Jimmy in the 30s having an Italian fascist party member on. They would speak about inequality, the rights of the worker, the failure of the state. And they would be correct. The whole white nationalist thing is easily talked around and shelved for the duration of the interview. This would NOT be a win for the left, it would be a moment of far-right radicalization.
You're saying that the left needs to be more open-minded about coalitions to ally against the state & neoliberalism, and I agree with this to an extent. I just don't think this is it.
Are there any exposes on Boogaloo proving this is a popular current in their politics? The vast majority of information I can find on Boogaloo outside of corporate media points to Radical Liberalism being the most common political trend.
All of the reportsI found on Boogaloo violence were murdering cops, or attempted murders. Also, there was the situation in Michigan, where some people the FBI claimed were boogaloo were caught in the Michigan governor entrapment situation.
This is not accurate. The Italian fascist would talk about the Italian race & the need for the Italian people to construct a state to further the race. They would likely speak highly of the work-disciplined labor. However, they would consider trade unionists enemies of the state, and therefore, enemies of the Italian race.
The rhetoric between Italian fascism and the right-Libertarian rhetoric that most boogaloos seem to have is worlds apart.
I'm not saying Left-wing organizations should have a blanket pro-boogaloo stance. I'm saying that formations of boogaloos seem interested in cooperating with Left-wing organizations in a positive way. I've been trying to get in contact with people I know in Detroit and Lansing, since the person Dore interviewed claimed they had a working relationship with Left-wing orgs in those cities.
I don't claim to be an expert on Boogaloo, but from what I've seen, they flash the white power sign, participate in Trump rallies, defend confederate statues, and do "Rittenhouse" shooter drills. I don't think their white supremacist aspect is overblown by mainstream media.
You say they're made up of "Radical Liberalism," which I don't really understand. The most common use of that phrase is essentially middle-upper class radical support for establishment democrats, usually with some social democratic tendency. Boogaloo as a whole does not strike me at all like that. They are "radical liberals" in the sense that they are not communists or anti-capitalists, but I think the more accurate description is a loosely far-right white power ideology, who would much sooner ally with fascists than with any kind of egalitarian project. Right-wing extreme libertarianism can be rhetorically opposed to fascism, but my reading of history shows that this is just not to be trusted. So any individual claiming to be part of Boogaloo that claims "anti-racism" is always going to be an ideological trojan horse.
That said, I would be curious to hear what your left wing org people have to say.
EDIT: This thread has more info on genuine Boogaloo tendencies (i.e fashy, racist, anti-communist etc): https://twitter.com/PapaGlider/status/1353695716082900994
The boogaloo boys. You fucking idiot.