Yeah I interviewed a white fascist teenager and he said he was projew, he is antiracism, has a degree in phrenology, believes in a free market objectivity system with heavy social safety nets and central planning, he is a gay black man, he believes in all the gods that have ever existed all at the same time, and that he's catholic. It was an eyeopening experience that people can just fuckin lie Jimmy. They don't have to tell the truth: muddying the water makes things better for fascists.
I personally think the ENTIRE boogaloo boys thing is just rebranded neonazi recruitment. They realized we were kicking their fucking asses and rebranded deliberately.
Oh absolutely. They might have some dumb stupidpol types that got lured in and still identify as socialists or anarchists, but they are absolutely just a fash org. I figure the lies are to keep recruitment or because confusing opponents is helpful for them; as an organisation they believe not a single thing of the interview
i'm 90% they aren't an org, just 4chan people who identify as boogaloo boys
In other words, a forum that would be very easy for a few dedicated recruiters to "slide".
Anyone who is “apolitical” is strictly for that country’s dominant politics.
The Black Panthers did openly collaborate with the Young Patriots while they still used the Confederate flag. It was through mutual struggle that the Young Patriots politics changed.
Also, the Rainbow Coalition did not have a six-week education program. It was a political alliance between various ethnic groups in Chicago.
I'm not advocating for communists to align with the Boogaloo Boys. They are not an organization. There's nothing to align with. But I wouldn't be surprised to see elements from Boogaloo Boys organize and cooperate with Left-wing organizations.
I'm curious to know if any Lansing-based socialists, communists, or progressives have issued statements on the person Jimmy Dore interviewed.
If you don’t understand that class struggle is intersectional and want to link arms with boogaloo bois with no talk of de-radicalizing them first
Here's the fundamental misunderstanding. The cooperation between Black Panthers & Young Patriots did not begin at "de-radicalizing" them.
It began as a tenuous political alliance built on their opposition to the Chicago police & the exploitative conditions in the city. The Young Patriots had southern pride, white gang elements during their collaboration with the Black Panther. That changed through mutual struggle with the Black Panthers.
Studying movements such as Boogaloo Boys, and identifying opportunities for political alliances is not class reductionism. It is sound political strategy for a Left-wing movement inside a decaying state. Sometimes it will produce allies, sometimes it will produce broken alliances.
But all of this is in the abstract. The formation "Boogaloo Boys" takes in any city will be radically different.
I really think you are missing the point.
The question is "we have similar objectives, to what extent does a political alliance make sense?" That question must be answered in every city with a Left-wing and a Boogaloo presence. It seems that the Boogaloo presence in Lansing has found common ground with Left-wing organizations.
I'm under the impression things will continue to become more violent & unstable in the US. I want as few of these armed militias to turn against my community as possible. That will involve negotiations & alliances.
We have similar objectives
Uh, the fuck we do, my dude. I don't think race war is on the to-do list of anyone here.
Who, specifically, is trying to start a race war? Don't work with them.
The overall thing that's missing here is Jimmy Dore, supposedly a representative of "the left," interviews someone who represents a far right militia group. I can agree with "if you know a Boogaloo IRL they are worth pushing left," but that's just not what this is. Effectively this is going to be an organizational critical endorsement from "leftist" Jimmy Dore. Look at all the YouTube comments - "THIS is why the faux left & #fraudsquad hate Jimmy."
Since Jimmy fans fucking hate AOC now, what's the next logical step for one of these rightfully angry individuals? "Hey maybe MSM is lying, these Boogaloo pals are kinda like the left but less SJW and they hate AOC." Plus, when a fucking idiot like Jimmy Dore is in charge of the "left perspective," there is no actual leftist thought in the conversation, so giving the spotlight to a rep of an armed far right militia suddenly doesn't seem so crazy. But it is fucking crazy. Not to mention Jimmy Dore fans are probably the LEAST well read leftists online, and the MOST susceptible to far right radicalization.
As far as I can tell, the largest formations of boogaloo boys are just, Radical Liberals. Calling them a far-right militia doesn't feel like an accurate descriptor.
I agree that Jimmy Dore is an idiot, and framing the conversation as "the far-left should unify with the far-right" is insane. The person he was interviewing was not far-right. He are advocating civil liberties, protection for LGBTQ and non-white people, and capitalism. He is the definition of a Radical Liberal. Also, there's no way for boogaloo boys to unify with anyone because they are not actually an organization, it's a pro-gun & anti-government ideology. That ideology attracts a wide range of people, and the formation it will take in any region will look different.
The good faith interpretation of the situation is that left-wing organizations should not instinctively create enemies based on preconceived notions. We are in the worst economic crisis since the Depression. Last time this happened, there was mass extermination of Leftists. We need to be measured in our approach, build our own lines of communication with militias, and de-escalate tensions.
I agree with what you said. Admittedly I did not watch the video, and I'm sure I could listen to it and agree with many points the individual made.
But the Boogaloo individual in the interview is irrelevant. The Boogaloo organization is what is effectively being platformed here, to an angry audience of pseudo, potentially proto-leftists. And on Twitter, Jimmy doesn't even seem to be clear on denouncing the things that Boogaloo as an organization, to the extent that they are one, is about: Race war & shooting up and harassing BLM protestors.
Picture Jimmy in the 30s having an Italian fascist party member on. They would speak about inequality, the rights of the worker, the failure of the state. And they would be correct. The whole white nationalist thing is easily talked around and shelved for the duration of the interview. This would NOT be a win for the left, it would be a moment of far-right radicalization.
You're saying that the left needs to be more open-minded about coalitions to ally against the state & neoliberalism, and I agree with this to an extent. I just don't think this is it.
Boogaloo as an organization, to the extent that they are one, is about: Race war & shooting up and harassing BLM protestors.
Are there any exposes on Boogaloo proving this is a popular current in their politics? The vast majority of information I can find on Boogaloo outside of corporate media points to Radical Liberalism being the most common political trend.
All of the reportsI found on Boogaloo violence were murdering cops, or attempted murders. Also, there was the situation in Michigan, where some people the FBI claimed were boogaloo were caught in the Michigan governor entrapment situation.
Picture Jimmy in the 30s having an Italian fascist party member on. They would speak about inequality, the rights of the worker, the failure of the state.
This is not accurate. The Italian fascist would talk about the Italian race & the need for the Italian people to construct a state to further the race. They would likely speak highly of the work-disciplined labor. However, they would consider trade unionists enemies of the state, and therefore, enemies of the Italian race.
The rhetoric between Italian fascism and the right-Libertarian rhetoric that most boogaloos seem to have is worlds apart.
I agree with this to an extent. I just don’t think this is it
I'm not saying Left-wing organizations should have a blanket pro-boogaloo stance. I'm saying that formations of boogaloos seem interested in cooperating with Left-wing organizations in a positive way. I've been trying to get in contact with people I know in Detroit and Lansing, since the person Dore interviewed claimed they had a working relationship with Left-wing orgs in those cities.
Are there any exposes on Boogaloo proving this is a popular current in their politics? The vast majority of information I can find on Boogaloo outside of corporate media points to Radical Liberalism being the most common political trend.
I don't claim to be an expert on Boogaloo, but from what I've seen, they flash the white power sign, participate in Trump rallies, defend confederate statues, and do "Rittenhouse" shooter drills. I don't think their white supremacist aspect is overblown by mainstream media.
You say they're made up of "Radical Liberalism," which I don't really understand. The most common use of that phrase is essentially middle-upper class radical support for establishment democrats, usually with some social democratic tendency. Boogaloo as a whole does not strike me at all like that. They are "radical liberals" in the sense that they are not communists or anti-capitalists, but I think the more accurate description is a loosely far-right white power ideology, who would much sooner ally with fascists than with any kind of egalitarian project. Right-wing extreme libertarianism can be rhetorically opposed to fascism, but my reading of history shows that this is just not to be trusted. So any individual claiming to be part of Boogaloo that claims "anti-racism" is always going to be an ideological trojan horse.
That said, I would be curious to hear what your left wing org people have to say.
EDIT: This thread has more info on genuine Boogaloo tendencies (i.e fashy, racist, anti-communist etc): https://twitter.com/PapaGlider/status/1353695716082900994
Cool it with the fucking reactionary language jesus.
"Degenerate" and "schizo moron" ain't a good look
like the stinky :haram: man lib to leftist pipeline, its getting backed up
We will no doubt have to work with some less than desirable elements, but the boogaloo boys are never to be trusted. They're like 1 degree of kevin bacon away from identity evropa or whatever the hell. These guys are extremely online and absolutely understand stuff like entryism.
This is always a weird flex to me. Like, "Let me comment in a thread on a topic I don't care to be informed on." Always stay curious, comrades!
It's like the exact opposite of the civility fetish that libs have. Shouting angry man = good.
Hmmm what's that word that describes people who are powerless totalitarian drones without agency who live vicariously through heroic narratives in media spectacle?
I'm not a dore fan and I don't watch his show , but I'm not going to pretend it isn't a real thing that the left shuns people for actually displaying a visceral hatred toward the ruling class. It also isn't surprising that the left keeps being betrayed by all its leadership figures when the type of affect it selects for weeds out virtually anyone who isn't a corporate social climber.
the left shuns people for actually displaying a visceral hatred toward the ruling class.
Such as who?
This is the definition of a psyop girls and boys and non-binaries. DEATH TO CAPITALISM.
This whole 'the left has allies in the far right' thing is so fucking manufactured to me.
It's frustrating. The Trillbillys illustrate how poor rural white communities are primed for leftist activism.
But libs tend to confuse "rural white poor" with "white nationalist". They come out of it thinking J.D. Vance is someone who could be a secret leftist.
There are plenty of people who haven't formed a strong ideological view yet, and simply display a right-wing aesthetic because its baked into the culture. Like waving a Confederate Flag because you enjoy Dukes of Hazard reruns and Lynard Skynard albums. And its good to approach these people with some degree of tact, because they legitimately don't understand the historical dialectic of the thing they're waving over their heads.
But this is an argument for youth-oriented organizing. Not right-wing oriented organizing.
20-year-olds echoing the aesthetic of their parents and older friends are potentially accessible and open to discourse. 40-year-old guys in pickup trucks waving Confederate Flags either know better or don't care. 60-year-old sponsors of the Confederate Veterans Society absolutely know better and most likely want to either recruit you or lynch you, themselves.
That's a very good point. It's hard to get past the people saying shit like "Sanders supporters are just Trump supporters with different hats!" They refuse to engage with the economic similarities between working-class right-wingers and leftist policy goals. Instead, they try to align the two based upon their least desirable qualities.
Youth-oriented organizing is huge. Not just in rural communities, of course. I don't see many lib boomers/gen xers going too far left either.
Lack of coherent leftist organization in areas with large reactionary populations can be a fuck for anyone who self radicalizes.
There's actually a coalition in Appalachia right now trying to solve this called Appalachian Socialists of America trying to combat this. Working with Black Socialists of America to try and start worker co-ops
No, it's that Boogaloo Boy who gave that speech in front of the MI State House.
https://twitter.com/MagnusPanvidya/status/1353359963821903872?s=19
Are those people often regular users of the subreddit or interlopers from elsewhere, though?
Just a few weeks ago there were people here praising him and calling him a leftist -- even more cringe.
He complained that AOC wasn't doing M4A fast enough. So, by the transitive property of "Punching Hippies from the Left", he must be an even bigger leftist than AOC.
does he actually qualify those statements or does he just go "uhh yeah racism is bad"?
Yes, the guys who want a literal race war said they were pro - Black Lives Matter 👌👌👌
Does it seem to anyone else like this sort of thing has become fairly common with Tulsi supporters, and doesn't anyone else think it's a little weird?
I frequently see them on twitter being intentionally divisive and pushing bad takes about working with right wingers, similar to what Dore did here. It almost feels like an op, to be perfectly honest.
i'm not on twitter so i haven't met enough Tulsi supporters to form a stereotype about them
I'm assuming by "anti war," the boog is just against foreign occupation and intervention by US troops?
Because the only thing all boogs agree on is the belief in either the necessity or inevitability of a second civil war.
You can't be for a "Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo" while being against war.
