My "problem" is, i dont see "tech bros" as my labor working comrades. Sure, they are still proletariat in theory but they start out here in the Bay at $140k a year. Ive been here for years and i have never even come close to a 3 figure annual. I want nothing to do with the tech industry.
I enjoy my work, even though i hurt myself all day. I help a LOT of people, i dont know if any tech bros get to say they fixed an old ladies car for free today. Or sent someone on their way when a mechanic at the dealership said they needed a new set of $740 tires and they have 5/32" left. Im proud af of my work, i take so much pride in it and honestly am finding it hard to find anything in common with armchair leftists.
Most people in tech aren't "tech bros". I'm trying to get a job in tech as a Software Engineer, and Ill be lucky to make 70k at this point. The absolute best I've seen someone get out of university is 100k, and thats exceedingly rare (as in I've only seen one person actually manage to do it). I'm not trying to say that isn't a shitload of money- it definitely is- but thats the outlier. Most low and entry-level tech jobs pay around $60-65k right now, despite what you might hear. Its not a straight pipeline to being a petty bourgeoisie living the high life, especially for regular developers.
As you mention, tech people definitely dont get to say they fixed someone's car or say they made someone's life better. You know what they can say? They had to work all weekend because of a critical error in the site and corporate demanded that they dont go home until its fixed. Or maybe there was a system failure and they were on call, so they had to work all night and their project manager still expect them to work at normal capacity all damn day with no extra breaks. The common thread through all of it? They dont get paid a fucking dime extra. Tech work is something most people get conned into with the promise that its going to be glamorous and well compensated, when in actuality tech workers are some of the most exploited of all.
Disregarding the validity of someones opinions and experiences based off of extremely exaggerated industry stereotypes leads to a lack of unity and shows a strong absence of understanding. Try to actually talk with people in the real world before making an uninformed, inflammatory, and elitist take like that.
I work with many of them in the real world. i get they "do stuff" but i dont feel like i am in the same class as them, plain and simple. im sorry you'll be lucky to make 70k a year starting, must be hard.
Didnt say it would be hard. Like said, I acknowledge that its a shitload of money. My point was that most people in tech will be lucky to make literally half of what you assumed tech workers make, and regardless of how you feel tech workers are still exploited employees. How you perceive their work doesn't change the reality of what they do. Its not about whether they "do stuff" or not, its about the fact a lot of them are working 12 hour days, sometimes seven days a week, and not getting paid for all of the extra time and hardship they put in.
Trying to be elitist about who is "more proletariat" is not productive, and sewing these divisions so you can feel more like a "real" proletariat worker is only going to further prevent leftist unity. If you're going to try and have a productive discourse, leave that shit at the door.
My argument is that they have totally fucked up where I live because of their high starting wages, therefore are in a class of their own, one of which i do not see as a comrade. You cant rent anything outside of $1000 that isnt 50 miles away and in the boonies. Anyone defending tech workers are defending the very same people who PAY these ridiculous prices. You ENABLE landlords to charge and GET what they are asking. So much has been sacrificed for the failure that is the "tech industry". People have to leave their homes, im watching my entire neighborhood be gentrified, and its 100% because of tech. Its all fine until it happens in your neighborhood. Its frightening that so many "leftists" here on Chapo are overlooking the real humanity of it
Fucking LANDLORD enabling tech workers can get fucked. Do something tangible, build a free library if you want to help distribute information. Anything tech isnt praxis. Ever.
I'm sorry your neighbourhood's getting gentrified. That's an incredibly shitty thing to live through. You're blaming the wrong people.
Tech workers aren't "enabling landlords" by ... paying rent? not asking their bosses for a paycut? any more than you are. Landlords are fucking you and tech workers over by raising prices as high as they possibly can. You getting fucked worse than tech workers doesn't mean you're not in the same class as them. You're in the same class because you both work for a living instead of owning things for a living. I'm not trying to victim blame here, organising is hard, risky and often doesn't work, but the only way not to "enable landlords" and keep prices down, would be a rent strike, which would benefit you, the people the landlords are trying to force out, and the tech workers. Not having solidarity with your fellow workers is actively harmful to your situation.
And again, you live in the fucking USA, having an attitude of "I won't have solidarity with my fellow workers because they're enabling the capitalists who are fucking me over by continuing to buy from them" is ridiculous. By that logic, I, and the vast majority of the workers of the world, should be ardently wishing you go eat a bullet. But I'm not, and socialists in general, don't because that's an utterly counterproductive attitude. If you want someone to have solidarity with you, you need to have solidarity with them, and without a united working class we're never going to get anything done.
I dont even know how to respond to this nuclearly bad fucking take. You cant blame workers for the fuckups of the ruling class. Tech workers aren't enabling landlords, landlords are exploiting tech workers. Capitalism's purpose is to maximize profit, so if there is more profit to be taken, they will take it. Tech workers aren't the ones who benefit from gentrification.
Also, if anything tech isn't praxis then you should probably not bother posting. Focus on doing your "real praxis" and cut the elitism vibe.
People can contribute to the movement no matter what their profession is. Cops and soldiers are different, but so long as the people you're talking about are workers and their job isn't fucking over your fellow workers saying they aren't your comrades and you want "nothing to do with them" just based on their profession and their take home pay is wrecker shit.
You're richer than the vast majority of the world's population.
The sort of thought you're putting out is actively toxic because if everyone refuses to work with or show solidarity to anyone who's slightly better off than them we're all fucked.
Yet i live in poverty where crime is looked over, my neighbors are struggling to keep their lights on and food in their bellies. Cars abandoned all down the roads, potholes with utilities exposed and leaking. Sure, i live in a rich country.
No, i will never stand beside tech workers. They can get fucked.
People who work in computer tech do an absurd amount of labor developing software and websites for free, often just for fun. Their bosses are the techbros who've taken advantage of this fact and made it standard to expect software developers to do a lot of unpaid work for them.
Okay maybe some of the actual workers are also techbros but because they're bootlickers who imagine themselves in the boss's position in the foreseeable future.
My "problem" is, i dont see "tech bros" as my labor working comrades. Sure, they are still proletariat in theory but they start out here in the Bay at $140k a year. Ive been here for years and i have never even come close to a 3 figure annual. I want nothing to do with the tech industry. I enjoy my work, even though i hurt myself all day. I help a LOT of people, i dont know if any tech bros get to say they fixed an old ladies car for free today. Or sent someone on their way when a mechanic at the dealership said they needed a new set of $740 tires and they have 5/32" left. Im proud af of my work, i take so much pride in it and honestly am finding it hard to find anything in common with armchair leftists.
Most people in tech aren't "tech bros". I'm trying to get a job in tech as a Software Engineer, and Ill be lucky to make 70k at this point. The absolute best I've seen someone get out of university is 100k, and thats exceedingly rare (as in I've only seen one person actually manage to do it). I'm not trying to say that isn't a shitload of money- it definitely is- but thats the outlier. Most low and entry-level tech jobs pay around $60-65k right now, despite what you might hear. Its not a straight pipeline to being a petty bourgeoisie living the high life, especially for regular developers.
As you mention, tech people definitely dont get to say they fixed someone's car or say they made someone's life better. You know what they can say? They had to work all weekend because of a critical error in the site and corporate demanded that they dont go home until its fixed. Or maybe there was a system failure and they were on call, so they had to work all night and their project manager still expect them to work at normal capacity all damn day with no extra breaks. The common thread through all of it? They dont get paid a fucking dime extra. Tech work is something most people get conned into with the promise that its going to be glamorous and well compensated, when in actuality tech workers are some of the most exploited of all.
Disregarding the validity of someones opinions and experiences based off of extremely exaggerated industry stereotypes leads to a lack of unity and shows a strong absence of understanding. Try to actually talk with people in the real world before making an uninformed, inflammatory, and elitist take like that.
I work with many of them in the real world. i get they "do stuff" but i dont feel like i am in the same class as them, plain and simple. im sorry you'll be lucky to make 70k a year starting, must be hard.
Didnt say it would be hard. Like said, I acknowledge that its a shitload of money. My point was that most people in tech will be lucky to make literally half of what you assumed tech workers make, and regardless of how you feel tech workers are still exploited employees. How you perceive their work doesn't change the reality of what they do. Its not about whether they "do stuff" or not, its about the fact a lot of them are working 12 hour days, sometimes seven days a week, and not getting paid for all of the extra time and hardship they put in.
Trying to be elitist about who is "more proletariat" is not productive, and sewing these divisions so you can feel more like a "real" proletariat worker is only going to further prevent leftist unity. If you're going to try and have a productive discourse, leave that shit at the door.
My argument is that they have totally fucked up where I live because of their high starting wages, therefore are in a class of their own, one of which i do not see as a comrade. You cant rent anything outside of $1000 that isnt 50 miles away and in the boonies. Anyone defending tech workers are defending the very same people who PAY these ridiculous prices. You ENABLE landlords to charge and GET what they are asking. So much has been sacrificed for the failure that is the "tech industry". People have to leave their homes, im watching my entire neighborhood be gentrified, and its 100% because of tech. Its all fine until it happens in your neighborhood. Its frightening that so many "leftists" here on Chapo are overlooking the real humanity of it
Fucking LANDLORD enabling tech workers can get fucked. Do something tangible, build a free library if you want to help distribute information. Anything tech isnt praxis. Ever.
I'm sorry your neighbourhood's getting gentrified. That's an incredibly shitty thing to live through. You're blaming the wrong people.
Tech workers aren't "enabling landlords" by ... paying rent? not asking their bosses for a paycut? any more than you are. Landlords are fucking you and tech workers over by raising prices as high as they possibly can. You getting fucked worse than tech workers doesn't mean you're not in the same class as them. You're in the same class because you both work for a living instead of owning things for a living. I'm not trying to victim blame here, organising is hard, risky and often doesn't work, but the only way not to "enable landlords" and keep prices down, would be a rent strike, which would benefit you, the people the landlords are trying to force out, and the tech workers. Not having solidarity with your fellow workers is actively harmful to your situation.
And again, you live in the fucking USA, having an attitude of "I won't have solidarity with my fellow workers because they're enabling the capitalists who are fucking me over by continuing to buy from them" is ridiculous. By that logic, I, and the vast majority of the workers of the world, should be ardently wishing you go eat a bullet. But I'm not, and socialists in general, don't because that's an utterly counterproductive attitude. If you want someone to have solidarity with you, you need to have solidarity with them, and without a united working class we're never going to get anything done.
I dont even know how to respond to this nuclearly bad fucking take. You cant blame workers for the fuckups of the ruling class. Tech workers aren't enabling landlords, landlords are exploiting tech workers. Capitalism's purpose is to maximize profit, so if there is more profit to be taken, they will take it. Tech workers aren't the ones who benefit from gentrification.
Also, if anything tech isn't praxis then you should probably not bother posting. Focus on doing your "real praxis" and cut the elitism vibe.
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Some ones feelings got hurt
Serious question, who do you think made the website you're posting on?
serious question, who keeps the power on to be able to develop said website?
Workers. Same as who made this website.
People can contribute to the movement no matter what their profession is. Cops and soldiers are different, but so long as the people you're talking about are workers and their job isn't fucking over your fellow workers saying they aren't your comrades and you want "nothing to do with them" just based on their profession and their take home pay is wrecker shit.
defend your class all you want, but they start out fucking rich. and ONLY get richer.
You live in the US.
You're richer than the vast majority of the world's population.
The sort of thought you're putting out is actively toxic because if everyone refuses to work with or show solidarity to anyone who's slightly better off than them we're all fucked.
Yet i live in poverty where crime is looked over, my neighbors are struggling to keep their lights on and food in their bellies. Cars abandoned all down the roads, potholes with utilities exposed and leaking. Sure, i live in a rich country.
No, i will never stand beside tech workers. They can get fucked.
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I’m unlike you.
People who work in computer tech do an absurd amount of labor developing software and websites for free, often just for fun. Their bosses are the techbros who've taken advantage of this fact and made it standard to expect software developers to do a lot of unpaid work for them.
Okay maybe some of the actual workers are also techbros but because they're bootlickers who imagine themselves in the boss's position in the foreseeable future.
Having met some of these tech bros in the Bay Area, hard to believe more than 2% of them are leftists.