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The major city coastal six figure hipster socialist is a real thing. This is just an observation. I honestly have no position on this. *The Chapo pod are actually these people, btw.
eh, for every one of those there are two dozen suburb gamers who either live cheap in the midwest or with parents and have a few thousand to throw around on this stuff
I remember one newspaper media site thing did an article that was like “meet the trust fund millennial who spends his time advocating against capitalism”
Our movement probably doesn't look like what some people think it looks like in their head. At least in the states.
It's probably a lot less white than some of the urban US left realizes, for one. Whites are a minority globally and in the US they're a shrinking majority.
wait wasn't that the same BofA VP's kid who just copy/pasted black lives matter 1000 times cause they were too lazy to write an application essay for some ivy school they were going to get into anyway?
there's plenty of media grifters in similarish flavors nominally on the left but idk that class traitors here are the same thing
Tbh I didn’t look into it bc i didn’t care and not like I expected msm to have anything insightful to say about it. But could be? Lol
But Yea, I’m not saying any class traitors here are like that kid, it’s just a thing that comes to my mind when I think about “rich kid socialists” bc of how much it was making the rounds on Reddit/Twitter/etc and was tangentially related.
Yeah I see people dropping a bunch of money into the stocks and I'm thinking like.... My local Food Not Bombs could use an extra $50 to make sure the houseless in my area don't starve to death. But go off leftist 👑. Surely the stock market needs your money more than any mutual aid in your area.
My feeling is still that this is largely not the best way to spend our time. It's exciting, sure, and it could help down the line, but if you have the wherewithal to figure out stocks I think the energy would be better spent liberating food from grocery stores—many of them simply throw away their food that's close to expiring and will let people take it if you talk to the right person. My local FNB has the schedule figured out where they can get anywhere from $50 to $1000 worth of food every week this way. It's extremely variable, and from what I know is not easy to get the process started, but the benefits are much larger than spending time following stocks. It's just not as exciting or glamorous.
I'm in no position to tell people what to do or what not to do, and if there are plans for mutual aid with the profits, anything is better than nothing. From my point of view though it's just participation in a zero sum system where a working class person is always hurt at the end of the day.
Harder to work directly with other people in the middle of a pandemic when you're immunocompromised, at least if you earn big on the stonks while bankrupting a hedge fund you should be using it to fund things that materially help others
Disclaimer that I do not have any stonks at all, but some of y'all don't seem to think it's possible to walk and chew gum at the same time
I mean, your post did make the assumption that everyone can go out and do face-to-face praxis and implied that doing stonks was mutually exclusive with other praxis
Many local mutual aid orgs will still take food donations, either food rescued from a grocery store (some you can call and ask if they are throwing out expired food, like bread, and they'll give it to you), food you cook yourself (most have a verification process for this, and a food-type req), or simply monetary donations. Outside of food, if you have spare clothes there are places that will distribute to the homeless in the area, or any plastic grocery bags can often be repurposed into blankets and pillows for the homeless (my aunt does this and I give her all my spares). There's a lot of creativity out there for how you can help without going face to face!
Alternatively you can agitate locally. Join your local Nextdoor and spread agitprop, put up flyers, do some more... direct action... if you live near a relevant location, etc. All of these are things you can do alone and without coming into contact with people! Be creative! Show care for your community!
And part of my point is that nothing says you can't do that and do stonks at the same time, including/especially the monetary donations aspect
This goes against the grain on this site where most everyone is obsessed with staying as anonymous as possible but spreading agitprop to your friends/family/local community on Facebook, and inviting them to public events (including protests, sit-ins), can actually increase turnout to these and grow the working class movement locally. A lot of my IRL comrades do this and I'm the weird one for not using Facebook.
This is a really fair take, however I would suggest seeing what kinds of safety measures your local orgs are taking! Personally I've found that I can make meals in my kitchen to donate and I can do so without coming into contact with anyone directly. Definitely check what you can do locally before writing off mutual aid :left-unity-3:
mutual aid in your area.
You also have no idea what they are doing in this regard and perhaps shouldn't rush to judgement.
If your energy is spent on agitating over... ahem "stonks," and that's where you're choosing to put your money and time...
My only point is that this energy and money has better outlets that don't contribute to a zero-sum system that ultimately hurts the working class. As a mod said, some people are planning on spending the profits on local mutual aid, and I hope they do.
Thanks for the call out and reminder. There's a Meal on Wheels where I live I can donate to.
I was reluctantly embracing the whole WSB is praxis meme until I had a bit of a scare last night where I thought I was going to be kicked out of my apartment in the middle of a snowstorm. Going on this site seeing people treating a bunch of capitalists investing in the stock market as revolutionary while I'm about to be homeless (fortunately today I am okay) definitely put things into perspective for me.
There is a disconnect on this site - there was that brief period where chapos were posting about their six figure salaries and other chapos were posting things like shit, I didn't realize the amount of wealth in the chapo community. I'm not going to worry about someone making money (as is always pointed out, there have always been middle/upper class revolutionaries, kropotkin was a prince, etc, etc.), I just hope they realize that it is them who are supposed to be solidary with the proletariat, not the other way around.
I remember Tarence on the Trillbillies podcast articulated a great take on this once. Trying to summarize from memory... but it was something to the effect of, the worker making $100k and the one making $40k can (and need to be) comrades in the struggle. BUT, we all need to be cognizant and aware that those two comrades may have differing material interests at times. And that's ok, but if we're not vigilant about acknowledging it it can bite us in the ass.
Glad you're doing better today.
Thanks comrade. do you know what episode this was? Cause that's my sentiment exactly. I'm by no means trying to keep people out of the movement, it's just I all too often see people from the oppressor class walk all over people from the oppressed classes whenever they try to help out.
I wish I could remember. Narrowing it down a bit, I think it was during primary season but before COVID lockdowns started happening in mid-March. I've never had their Patreon so it was a free ep. I might go back and try to relisten to some and if find it I'll DM you.
Honestly yeah, and this is probably the most legitimate complaint about all the wsb posting that's been on the site.
Lol I got in at $80 I’m a fucking teacher not a bougie champagne socialist. I guess the “one true leftist” test includes an income bracket now?? :agony-yehaw:
This is like.... Blatantly ignoring the entire point of the post. This isn't a purity test. This is a "what do 'Leftists' spend their time/money on?" test.
This is a “what do ‘Leftists’ spend their time/money on?” test.
The inevitable consequence of the "what do the chapo hosts do with the Patreon money" is that we'd eventually turn that same attitude onto each other.
And.... we shouldn't? I'm sorry, I don't understand these takes. Are we LARPing this shit? Like are we not trying to tear down the disgusting capitalist system in place and build a better society out of the ruins? If you're not, that's fine I guess, you'll be someone else to work on for those that are trying to make the world a better place.
First, I want to say that I seefolks complaining about people moving like thousands of dollars, but I've not seen anyone on this website say they've done that. I just now scrolled thru some c/finance threads to double check. So I feel like there's a disconnect between (part of) the complaints and the reality, as least as I see it. Redditors are the ones throwing around thousands, not Chapos (HexBearians?), from what I see.
With that said...
And… we shouldn’t?
No! It's incredibly divisive. Where does it end? If this isn't put in check, we're going to end up with some shit like people in the food comm shaming others for not buying the store brand ingredients, or the games comm for spending any time or money on games when that could be better spent! It's judgmental, holier-than-thou nonsense.
If anyone did have thousands to gamble in this way, then, as has been said elsewhere ITT, hopefully they put some of any gains they get to beneficial causes.
First, I want to say that I see folks complaining about people moving like thousands of dollars
I don't know about those people, my opinion is that spending any money on stocks at all is a waste of time, resources, and most likely a bunch of research that could be better spent on better things. I don't spend enough time on here to know how exactly prevalent it is, but it's all over the front page.
No! It’s incredibly divisive.
Being a Leftist is divisive... It's believing in building a plurality of solidarity among working people such that we can overthrow the current system and replace it with a better one. If that's not divisive I'm not sure I know what is haha
Where does it end?
I don't think most leftists are super unreasonable. I think if you spend extra money at the grocery store or on video games no one is gonna be very mad. If you're spending thousands on video games and spending your time on that rather than mutual aid, that's a different story. The key is moderation. But participation in the bourgeoisie system that is the stock market..? Why? What material benefit does that give us that spending that time and those resources on something else wouldn't? Putting $100 into the stock market is $100 you could use to set up or help maintain a community garden. Below a_blanqui_slate said both sides think the other is LARPing, which is fine as long as the work is getting done it doesn't matter what people think, but we're pretty disorganized here on the Left. I help run a Leftist group on my local Nextdoor and it only has 19 members. I put up flyers and barely get responses at all. There's 12k+ people on chapo, that alone should be enough for a few hundred people in every state to be able to get a movement going. To me, this sort of getting into the weeds of the stock market is just a waste of time that distracts from the goal.
It’s judgmental, holier-than-thou nonsense.
What I'm about to say is going to, most likely, sound exactly like that. I'm gonna say it anyway because I'm going through a manic episode and got drunk to cope.
We should be judgemental. If all 12k+ people here on chapo worked on local organizing/mutual aid/making and throwing seed bombs of edible plants we could make a huge difference. The LARPing accusation should be leveled more often. Maybe it'll motivate people to go out and help. But if it doesn't and it turns people away that weren't doing anything anyway? Why do we care about those people in an online space?
And… we shouldn’t?
Correct.
Are we LARPing this shit?
Both sides think the other side is the one LARPing and they're both probably right.
Both sides think the other side is the one LARPing and they’re both probably right.
I mean in that case who cares, right? If we can't even focus enough on our main goal then why not just LARP. I live in a fairly large population area and there's far fewer people doing anything materially beneficial for their community than Twitter/Chapo/Reddit population distribution should suggest, so I imagine you're pretty correct anyway.
This website doesn't really have a main goal. The relationship between politics and this website is almost entirely unidirectional, and that's okay, and true for all but the largest websites, and even then the websites can only influence politics in an aggregate, institutional level.
When someone tells you on this website you're doing leftism incorrectly, they might be right or they might be wrong, and everyone here should have the epistemic humility to acknowledge that, but in the end it doesn't actually matter and isn't something that should factor terribly heavily in your self-image.
Upvoting yourself is bourgeoise decadence and I'll not have it xD
Of course, pointing this out has people accusing me of demanding lifestyle-ism or repeating ad nauseum that “Marx did stonks” or otherwise posting COPE in different words. Truly, I don’t give a shit. If you’ve got money, God bless. You did it. Go trade it if you want to. Just don’t forget that there are actual poor people on here… desperately poor, struggling people that got churned by the god awful US economy and don’t know where their next meal is coming from or are relying on some pudding-brained politician to remember to extend an eviction moratorium so they aren’t on the streets.
There’s two types of people who have the same opinion as you and OP: 1. People like you and I who don’t have the cash to part with a single cent, the type of people even these redditors look down upon and 2. rich fundie leftists who are so secure in their material conditions that the concept and prospect of making money is not worth letting go of the moral browbeating they can take part in.
What you don't have 3 grand just laying around to put into a slot machine? Why are you being such a downer?!
Actual poor and struggling people have no skin in this game except for some people on WSB trying to crash the markets because that’s always a fun time for the most vulnerable lol.
Oh come on, internet leftists have been doing the "line go down" bit for years
I guess I haven't been seeing the same posts as you. Dunking on captialists is like half of all posts on this website and the people I've seen throwing around big money are on reddit, not here.
Idk I feel like I'm being a dickhead or minimizing this but I can't find the right words for it
Stop comparing your life to other peoples on the internet it is literally the disease of our generation.
Look I’m not saying that to be a jerk it’s good advice. But hey it’s your life. Enjoy continuing to feel bad about shit that’s completely out of your control. People don’t choose the lives they are born into. There is a mutual aid comm too, something we might be able to actually use more if some of us were able to get more money somehow. Or hell maybe even pay the mods! The idea that this website is poor shaming by trying to squeeze a little juice out of a rigged system that’s falling apart before our eyes is a level of self pity I can’t even fathom. I doubt this community has over 10k in GME and it’s probably a lot less, even if you include other stock symbols. But yeah no it’s the users who are gambling with what little they have that are really ruining this website.
Yeah same. That poster left the site now because of what's been happening. I'm just waiting for all of this r/wsb stuff to blow over tbh.
Yeah 100% serious. They were saying the current talk on the site was making their depression worse so yeah.
Yeah there's been some terrible takes recently. One that got me was someone saying that hating on the r/wsb thing was "western leftism". Nah, in fact probably the most "western leftist" thing ever is trading stocks to try beat the capitalists at their own game if people want to throw that take around.
I don't like to dunk on fellow chapo people on this site (unless they're an obvious wrecker of course), feels like I'm harassing them. We're all allowed to have a bad take now and then
Please no, I'm going to turn into an irl agony emote soon if someone says that unironically again
:agony-limitless:
Pretty much what I said. Person left the site because all the wall street bets stuff and seeing people gamble with probably to them a large amount of money was making their depression worse. That's what I could get from their posts before they deleted their account.
Person left the site and some posters want a lumpen community now, yeah it not been the best
https://hexbear.net/post/78552
"Creating a stocks gambling community, what's the worst that could happen???"
But then they need to be addressed somehow. If I see another "woe me I'm a CEO and finance ghouls suck" post or "I have substantial amount of money invested in GameStop when do I pull out" post I'm going to turn into an irl agony emote.
:agony-yehaw:
Maan. I'm broke as hell, lost literally everything getting out of an abusive relationship. Starting over for the 2nd time (finished school in 2007 lol rip). Yeah, I'm a little jealous I can't be in on this, but like I'm not going to judge other people. I don't know why people can't just be happy for comrades catching a break
I'm beginning to regret not pushing back harder against this kind of shit. I'm interested in this gamestonks story and have responded to WSB posts because I'm a (rogue) economist, not because I'm speculating. The mods who put up the WSB comm and designated it a "Dengist safe space" are too irony-poisoned to realize that people unfamiliar with Deng's role in opening up the PRC to exploitation by western capitalists (and the fact that "Dengist" is usually a pejorative) would interpret the comm as sanctioning participation in market speculation entryism instead of a quarantine for WSB posts that should probably be shut down when the hype dies down.
If nothing else I've realized just how easy it must have been for the CPC leadership to go in this direction in the 1970s-1990s after their country stayed dirt-poor for the first couple decades after the 1949 revolution while under constant siege.
Yeah, I used to work in a finance risk management and compliance adjacent role, and know about this stuff, so it’s fascinating to watch and talk about
I have manged saved up like $2000 but it's taken me years of hard work and scrimping and saving and probably most importantly living with my family rent free for a time. I hold onto it for dear life, it's a cushion that stops me worying endlessly about every penny I spend and means I can handle buying a new fridge or cooker if necessary. I couldn't imagine spending $10 dollars on stocks let alone thousands. Poverty is a never ending nightmare that causes endless trauma for those it is inflicted upon and even though I no longer have to live paycheque to pay cheque I still pretty much do because of the fear of losing the tiny little bit of breathing room I have.
You are not alone here comrade. :Care-Comrade:
even though I no longer have to live paycheque to pay cheque I still pretty much do because of the fear of losing the tiny little bit of breathing room I have.
damn i actually really feel this
I have seen a lot of people in the same general area as you who see it as "the way out," right? Like they save for years and eventually realize that they will never retire and literally work to death regardless of how well they thrift and save. It's a scary realization, it's the same reason gas stations sell lottery tickets.
It's not something to be proud of, exactly, but there's a big difference between them and the California leftist making six figures who bought in as a meme or whatever.
Same lol. Seeing people gamble what I earn in a month or two on some stock is wild
Yeah I'm rationing my need to function pain meds again, shit is a fuck. I'm just glad the place I live in didn't get flooded by a tropical storm/hurricane this week, it got pretty fucking close yesterday and I'm hoping the rain fucking stops. I live in the middle of nowhere next to a river so yeah. And to think it almost got burnt down by a forest/bush fire a few months ago. Sorry for venting but shit really sucks rn
if you don't mind me asking, where do you live? you can be as broad as you want or not disclose it, obviously.
Well this is the cyclone that's caused the rain this past week, so one of those countries.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Eloise
are there normally cyclones in that area? i'm asking because i live to your west (like across the Atlantic) and we typically don't have any cyclones but we had two last year.
stay safe comrade.
really cool to know we're already seeing everyday changes from climate change. cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool.
It's literally my salary/amount I live off give or take a bit lol
how livable? where i live it's technically livable but it's very much a poverty salary for big cities. it wouldn't provide much dignity. it'd be slightly better in the countryside but still not good at all. i know your currency is devalued but for it to have fallen enough to make US$300/month a decent wage would definitely be :surprised-pika: territory for me.
I mean, I don't starve. If I hadn't a child I could have a more decent life, but it's not bad cuz my gf also has a similar salary and the house is my in-laws property so we don't pay rent. Anyways, rent is really cheap here in the country side.
I think a lot of people here are just caught up in the gambling high. If people here have legitimately dropped in thousands, that doesn't necessarily mean they can afford it. Even if we're all a bunch of communists, that doesn't mean we're immune to addictions, and this GME situation has created the perfect introduction to gambling addiction that can even affect the few of us that have read theory. A false narrative has been established that "it can't possibly go tits up," when it absolutely will. I say this as someone who put $50 in GME and am down 10%.
Chapo communists are probably the most likely to be addicted tbh
I literally do not know what you are talking about. I haven't seen a single person saying they're putting in thousands of dollars, or even any amount of money above 100, and none at all in the past day. I have seen many, many more people complaining about those people though
in theory I could get in on this, but I never would. I was piss pot broke for a big chunk of time... like 27-34. I was a college drop out, constantly laid off statistic. driving a shitty beater, working off book for peanuts from assholes. my "treat yourself friday" was going through the mcDs drive through for a large fry and a large soda, which was like $3. lunch of the gods. caffeine, salt, carbs, fiber. back to work!
I got real lucky and ended up just saying "fuck it" and going for broke by going back to school on recommendation from a friend and because my born-rich employers seemed really against me quitting and going back to school. I didn't know much but I knew they were my adversaries.
fast forward almost 10 years and I'm now a PMC non profit douche with a comfy paycheck job. but in my heart and wallet, it's all fragile. the state budget will eventually austerity us out in our asses. so i drive a 20 year old gas sipper, live in a place that I am embarrassed for regular people to see, and buy off brand diet soda in bulk as a treat for myself (14 cents a can!). I put a bunch of money to local and state/regional efforts every month and the occasional jumbo donation to personal causes, but otherwise I just save and save waiting for the other shoe to drop. all it would take is losing my job and getting sick to wipe me out.
my grandmother, who lived through the depression on some tiny dirt farm in georgia likes me, but she says I'm a "tightwad". I don't know any other way to be.
the psychological trauma of being poor for years has made it so I simply can't stomach the risk of being a "good consumer", let alone buying into something truly insane like a stock bet. gambling is just insane to me, I don't care if there's a "system".... the entire affair seems like it would be agonizing until it was over.
I think people who claim to have fun while gambling have some kind of maladaptive disorder like poor impulse control/risk seeking stuff. but I look around outside leftist spaces, and they're normal while I'm the freak.
my grandmother, who lived through the depression on some tiny dirt farm in georgia likes me, but she says I’m a “tightwad”.
This genuinely hurts to hear.
the psychological trauma of being poor for years has made it so I simply can’t stomach the risk of being a “good consumer”, let alone buying into something truly insane like a stock bet. gambling is just insane to me, I don’t care if there’s a “system”… the entire affair seems like it would be agonizing until it was over.
The "system" collapses if not enough people invest and consume. That's why this maladaptive behavior is encouraged to the point of being considered normal.
