I don't know what are you trying to do, but all that rant has, indeed, a lot of antisemitism
Do you really want us to dissect every part of that incoherent rant and tell you what's antisemitic and what's just stupid? Cuz it's a lot and I didn't read further than the fourth paragraph.
Or are you just being "acid" or whatever?
OK Mr/Mrs/Mx le great leftist pedagogue, I really need to ask you: are you really this dumb with all that shit you wrote, or were you trying to do some grand artistic performance shit expecting people to dissect every single incoherent part of that in a comunal effort to detect and counter antisemitism and in the end we will all hug and masturbate each other?
Cuz I'm really confused right now
About this, I got into leftism because of shared values and worries, and via fucking memes mostly. The "oh leftists are just gatekeeping nerds" is bullshit, at least to me. Y'all are all really funny and cool and finding this community (leftism) was a fucking big relief, and yeah, some things are hard to "get" coming from the outside having been brainwashed by capitalism and racism since the craddle, but those are not that many.
how can an analysis of class disregard the fact that jews are disproportionately represented in the bourgeoisie?
They aren't. Wealthy jews are overrepresented in media because of anti-semitism. And partially because of coastal elitism. There are plenty of working class Jews, you just don't think about them because you uncritically consume information that reinforces the stereotypes in your head.
I also believe like him that jews are most definitely not "disproportionately represented in the bourgeoisie" (and in fact that's a common antisemitic talking point), so those links would help tremendously, and if you have such sources I struggle to think why you didn't include them in your post in the first place.
have others come away from reading about the occupation of palestine having developed anti-semitic thoughts
Nope. And I don't see why reading about the former would lead to the later to be honest.
but like… NUKE ISRAEL PLEASE. Hell, nuke us too while you’re at it
Yikes. Both in Israel and the US, there are a tons of innocent, OK people. Wishing nuclear holocaust on either is not a good look.
Jews are oppressed by antisemitic people. In America, there are plenty of antisemitic christians and neonazis. They are targets of hate crimes and shootings.
Like all people, jews fit into the socioeconomic ladder based on incredibly complex historical conditions. However, and I can't stress this enough, the vast majority of jewish people are not part of the bourgeoisie. Many are comrades, and many are potential comrades.
I'm sure you don't hate all white people for the crimes of other white people. Embracing antisemitism because of the crimes of the apartheid state of israel alienates and harms innocent people. I'm not calling you an antisemite, but if you are thinking those thoughts you need to sit down and figure out why.
Lastly, plenty of jews are zionists because they are fed a narrative beginning at a really young age. As leftists it is our job to educate people and help them understand there is an alternative. It's hard but we don't have a choice
this is arguably the right comm, i think this qualifies as writing. i've started reading several paragraphs but given up each time.
as for my thoughts: jews good, zionism bad, jewish socialism based, jewish representation in media and finance = who cares lol
oh and circumcision bad
I often skip to the end of stuff when I'm reading something long on the internet, something I learned from reading scholarly articles. When you end your long post with "**wow bro can’t believe you read all that shit lol **" it's hard to care that much about what it says.
I genuinely do not know if this is serious but you should read up on the history of the Jewish left, for example in response to anti-semitism from the right many Jewish people supported revolutionary movements in Russia. What you're saying is a poorly researched and biased interpretation of what it means to be Jewish in modern society. As leftists we should be using facts to drive our points home, the vast majority of Jewish people are working class and experience discrimination on the basis of being Jewish that non-Jewish people do not. This means we should be fighting for their liberation, not alienating them by parroting fascist talking points.
The judaism comm has linked the section of Marxists.org on "Jews, Marxism and the Workers Movement. It's full of resources on the topic and you could take your pick depending on what you're looking for specifically.
You are writing like someone who popped their first addy lmao
and who cares if jewish people are “over represented“ in ivy leagues, or % of billionaires. It’s prob the same cultural reason Asians are. Parents, family, and communities expect more so they have a higher fear of failure compared to other cultures. It’s not biological lmao. There are a few videos by Asian Americans who dive into this cultural difference.
where did you see in my comment that anything is off limit to discuss? I simply stated that the reasons likely mirror the reason Asian Americans/immigrants succeed. Not some anti- Semitic conspiracy
so do black and latinx parents care less?
cultural arguments to justify racial success, even when positive, always have a flip side that pushes other cultures down i.e. the model minority myth is racist towards asians but also anti black
cultures are different and have different expectations. Obviously there are socioeconomic differences aswell.
I come from a majority black community where the high school grad % was 63% my grad year. The area was super poor so you have to factor that in, but graduating high school wasn’t an expectation let alone going to college.
I think expectations are just different and many eastern people agree, I mean suicide and depression in Japan, Korea and China from above average but not exceptional test grades happen for a reason, students are expected to be at the top of their class, and if they falter they are seen as lazy. Let alone someone who drops out or doesn’t care
I come from a majority black community where the high school grad % was 63% my grad year. The area was super poor so you have to factor that in, but graduating high school wasn’t an expectation let alone going to college.
do you think this was due to material conditions or black culture? assigning that to black culture is weird *.....................................................................i am a black person who grew up in a black community but would never say that we dont think of college as an expectation because we are not culturally concerned with it. thats very generalizing.
i understand that certain cultures may be as a whole, facing different material conditions which cause expectations to shift.....but id watch how far i run with this, especially if it goes in the territory of "X cultures parents care more so X are more educated" which is different than simply acknowledging material conditions races have to contend with as a feature of their marginalization
like justifying not focusing on college as cultural priorities when black people, in addition to dealing with poverty at higher rates, have been systemically pushed out of education, access to wealth (and were murdered if they ever got too uppity) etc is weird and plays into right wing/racist talking points of black people being marginalized because of their own subhuman culture
i dont know if you intended this, but fixating on culture (rather than the material conditions that usually effect that demographic) as a justification for success or lack of success is primarily a losing game with a solution that can only focus on how to "change the culture" rather than doing something actually worthwhile like making education accessible.
edit* is racist
I am merely trying to show how differences arise in cultural expectations by showing the most extreme examples. If I were to just contrast the differences between Japan and the United State in time spent studying, high school drop out rate, or % of population going to college you wouldn’t call that racist.
Cultures are different and these differences can lead to different priorities, which leads to disparities in certain sectors
theres a HUGE difference between pointing out how long a nation studies and how that effects that nation's educational success versus lazily blaming a race's culture on the race's relative lack of success.
Japan is a country. the US is a country. Black americans ---although i dont even think we were explictly talking about only black americans here --are not a country. Black america consists of caribbean immigrants, african immigrants, mixed folks and american descendents of slavery.
Using study time to measure educational success is using hard data that has a direct and valid correlation to how successful a student might be based on how long they study. Using anecdotes about your observations as a non black person growing up in a black community is not hard data and even if it is, it does not correlate directly to black people going into higher education.
how can you even make a generalization about black culture when so many different ethnicities, languages, countries, class ranks and more define it? You are making a racist argument.
I never made a generalization about black culture?? I simply stated how cultural expectations can influence outcome and told my own personal experience about how expectations effected my community. Not a total generalization of all black culture lol
I’m not even talking about race lmao. I’m simply talking about how cultural exceptions effect a person growing up. Sociology 1101 shit
Culture ≠ Race
someone who popped their first addy
oh no he's the new Hitler monkaS
If the Palestinian struggle is gonna succeed then like the anti apartheid one it will probably take a lot of international sanctions and an internal mobilization. It seems to me the delusion of the two state solution has stalled a lot of things but you do see BDS pick up steam in colleges.
As for over-representation of minorities in certain areas: this is true for all minorities who voluntarilly moved here and were not surpressed completely. See: South Asians, East Asians. Probably something to do with a tendency of minorities to commit to education (if they are allowed access that is). Probably will get more insights as you read the history of various communities here (the jews were heavily discriminated against in America as far as I know - not being allowed to hold office for an obvious example and ofc violence, nothing as brutal as the experience of black and native americans though which I think makes a difference). These questions matter to the extent that minorities often have not shown solidarity with each other when it comes to their struggle (which is shared across much broader sections but you would think solidarity with other minorities would be easier than the working class in general, the recent interviews Finklestein has given are pretty interesting and relevant here). There doesn't seem to be any exceptional evil about any given community though. Israelis could be Hindus (see Kashmir), or Buddhists (see Mayanmar) or Turkish (see Armenia) etc etc etc
Your intrusive thoughts are probably due to habbit. If you recognize them for what they are you should be able to deal with them overtime.
About Jewish history in America? Most of what I know comes from a visit to the Jewish history museum in Philladelphia :p About other things I said: read the Holocaust Industry by Norman Finkelstein. About Kashmir there is Hindu rulers muslim subjects. For Turkey there was a great episode on the podcast guerrila history (why turkey is authoritarian or something - it is also a book haven't read it yet).
-
Jewish people get diaspora'd
-
Jewish people get diaspora'd again (and again and again)
-
Jewish people maintain a depth of culture and critical scholarship while settling in many regions, including Europe
-
Some intermarriage and cultural contact/mixing happens
-
Jews become a convenient scapegoat for Europeans because they are simultaneously European and non-European
-
European nobility puts restrictions on Jews' access to land and the means of production, Jews find a way to survive
-
Many Jewish people end up very good at surviving economically in the fields they've been confined to
-
These fields end up becoming a large part of the capitalist class
It's that simple. Powerful bigoted white people are the main source of their unpredicted outcomes.
-
have others come away from reading about the occupation of palestine having developed anti-semitic thoughts?
This is a generalization and it's quite the wrong conclusion to make. Reactionary nationalists are reactionary nationalists and they resemble each other no matter what country or ethnicity they claim to represent.
One of the valid lessons from the State of Israel is how quickly victims can turn into oppressors without a strong sense of internationalism.
