Global Leftists/MLs ought to know that they’re considered absolute morons by the entire US SocDem base.
Seriously though, the DemSoc hate is beyond fucking absurd. AOC didn’t win her seat for being a raging socialist calling for international liberation or whatever stupid lipservice leftists want American left wing politicians to stand on.
AOC and her close colleagues got the seats for being social democrats, I don’t know what that’s so hard for leftists to fucking process. And I have no doubt in my mind that if any of the newly elected progressives ran a more explicitly socialist message they would have lost tenfold. Why don’t you get off your high fucking horse and admit to the fact that American progressives don’t get the luxury of flying based red flags with yellow stars and instead have to cater to American capital and naive liberals and hopeful democrats who’ve grown mildly disillusioned with party leadership.
That being said, I’m willing to bet that Bernie and his band of progressives have done more to make self identified socialists in American in that last 4 years than Gloria La Rivera has done in her entire career, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation had Bernie never ran the first place, so either get in line or fuck off, because this DemSoc hate is the most childish and pedantic shit in leftist circles.
There is not a single elected official who is on the side of the left that high up in politics.
Exactly this and there quite literally can not be.
I know mr.fetishes is trying to be a pragmatist but this is why it’s not pragmatism to support socdems that get elected and immediately sell out, tho it’s not really selling out if they were never really on our side to begin.
If you really want to pragmatically support socialist ideas it’d more valuable to join/start an organization and do irl praxis in your community and educate than to go, “hey at least aoc voted no on that bad bill, praxis, yas kween.”
These socdems funnel praxis into status quo approved methods of political engagement the same way any other liberal politician does, they just do it for the more fringe lefties who haven’t completely broke off from electorialism yet.
Who "got elected and then immediately sold out"? Who in the United States political system ran as a socialist then immediately abandoned their principles for material gain? Do you consider Cori Bush a sellout? Or was she never on our side or what?
Like, do you think these elected socialists are good immediately until they get elected, then they're sellouts the second they take the oath of office? Or are they sellouts the minute they consider going from activism to elected office? I'm not asking this in bad faith I'm genuinely curious.
Sellout was a bit loaded but I meant that more that that’s how some people talk about them.
I don’t consider social Democrats socialist. None of the “socialist” American politicians are socialist. They are capitalist who want more social programs that’s why they’re “social” democrats.
That’s what I meant by “it’s not really selling out.” Cuz they’re not, they’re doing exactly what you’d expect them to do.
And that’s perfectly fine. But it’s reasonable and expected that socialists, who want worker control, to not like it when a capitalist does capitalist things (like supporting capital and imperialism) and we shouldn’t give them a pass simply bc they like social programs. We’re allowed to call them out for stuff like that.
Not every way people do it is above board or the best way but I think it’s silly to say “we’re not gonna criticize socdems” it’s the same energy as liberals putting their candidates above criticism for equally “pragmatic reasons”
calling the victims of americas global imperialism morons LMAO ok buddy enjoy ur functioning not collapsing country where u cant go outside, ur so damn pragmatic thanks for the student massacre in 68
youre not wrong and im pretty sure they dont disagree with you either, rather the last time we had people saying this outloud in american politics they were all murdered on TV. our government committed crimes against its own people in the 60s too. i think the only point trying to be made is that social democracy is the only thing anybody can advocate for in a political forum here. anything more is at best ignored, at worst... dealt with
I forget where I got this from, I think someone made a joke with it on the CTH sub and I figured I would add it to the litany of alts I was using on there.
I think I was also fresh off seeing that list of fake american baseball players for an old Japanese video game and thought it would fit perfectly.
ought to know that they’re considered absolute morons by the entire US SocDem base.
Ok but who gives a shit what a bunch of imperialist westerners think about global politics?
I’m mostly with you, demsocs should be criticized but they’re mostly fine, socdems aren’t really our friends and it’s kinda silly to pretend otherwise. There’s historical reasons to be wary of it and I mean if Democrats are controlled opposition, are socdems as well?
They’re basically called in to defend capitalism when it’s on its last leg, e.g. the new deal era policies, that can be undone later when the masses are placated.
I know we’re between a rock and a hard place here, but recognizing that only placating capital gets you elected, at what point are you just complicit in its imperialism and exploitation by capitulating to its demands?
And if you’re aware of all that’s going on in capital, is being one out of 200+ people to vote “no” ocassionally on a bill that guts social security really a success? (And vote yes to go bomb over exploited countries in the global south in the case of both Aoc and Bernie btw. So is material, lethal harm to global poor so the privleged few in the imperial core can have healthcare ok? Because that’s how they vote)
Especially compared to fighters in imperialized nations who fight literally for their and their people’s freedom?
Bc in my view saying get “in line” with that is materially indiscriminate from any liberal saying “biden won y’all, time to go with the party line, don’t disrupt or you’ll cost us the seats to republicans.”
I think people in power should be criticized even, socialists we mostly agree with. If nothing else to remind ourselves that our elected leaders should be doing better and these are the ways they could be doing it.
Bernie and his band of progressives have done more to make self identified socialists in American in that last 4 years than Gloria La Rivera has done in her entire career
Makes sense when you consider Bernie and co have been telling everyone that socialism is when the government gives you healthcare and free college. We need class consciousness and solidarity not self-identified socialists. One can recognize the effect Bernie and company have had pulling apoliticals as well as some libs and chuds to a socdem position, but they won't send them any farther left than that. Part of actually dragging soc dems left is, uhh, calling out when their positions or their favorite politician's positions are wrong, and challenging assumptions and misconceptions they often have in particular with regards to imperialism. Left unity is for people who actually want to abolish capitalism.
Voters don't even know what social democrats even are (they're like super democrats, right? (Yes)) and she did win by paying lip service, to Medicare for all and revolting against the establishment, so what's the point of winning when they just rollover as soon as they get into office?
Continue arranging the deck chairs if you want though.
Global Leftists/MLs ought to know that they’re considered absolute morons by the entire US SocDem base.
Seriously though, the DemSoc hate is beyond fucking absurd. AOC didn’t win her seat for being a raging socialist calling for international liberation or whatever stupid lipservice leftists want American left wing politicians to stand on.
AOC and her close colleagues got the seats for being social democrats, I don’t know what that’s so hard for leftists to fucking process. And I have no doubt in my mind that if any of the newly elected progressives ran a more explicitly socialist message they would have lost tenfold. Why don’t you get off your high fucking horse and admit to the fact that American progressives don’t get the luxury of flying based red flags with yellow stars and instead have to cater to American capital and naive liberals and hopeful democrats who’ve grown mildly disillusioned with party leadership.
That being said, I’m willing to bet that Bernie and his band of progressives have done more to make self identified socialists in American in that last 4 years than Gloria La Rivera has done in her entire career, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation had Bernie never ran the first place, so either get in line or fuck off, because this DemSoc hate is the most childish and pedantic shit in leftist circles.
-7DeadlyFetishes
And we should care about that opinion why exactly?
:thonk:
-Chutt_Buggins
deleted by creator
Exactly this and there quite literally can not be.
I know mr.fetishes is trying to be a pragmatist but this is why it’s not pragmatism to support socdems that get elected and immediately sell out, tho it’s not really selling out if they were never really on our side to begin.
If you really want to pragmatically support socialist ideas it’d more valuable to join/start an organization and do irl praxis in your community and educate than to go, “hey at least aoc voted no on that bad bill, praxis, yas kween.”
These socdems funnel praxis into status quo approved methods of political engagement the same way any other liberal politician does, they just do it for the more fringe lefties who haven’t completely broke off from electorialism yet.
Who "got elected and then immediately sold out"? Who in the United States political system ran as a socialist then immediately abandoned their principles for material gain? Do you consider Cori Bush a sellout? Or was she never on our side or what?
Like, do you think these elected socialists are good immediately until they get elected, then they're sellouts the second they take the oath of office? Or are they sellouts the minute they consider going from activism to elected office? I'm not asking this in bad faith I'm genuinely curious.
Sellout was a bit loaded but I meant that more that that’s how some people talk about them.
I don’t consider social Democrats socialist. None of the “socialist” American politicians are socialist. They are capitalist who want more social programs that’s why they’re “social” democrats.
That’s what I meant by “it’s not really selling out.” Cuz they’re not, they’re doing exactly what you’d expect them to do.
And that’s perfectly fine. But it’s reasonable and expected that socialists, who want worker control, to not like it when a capitalist does capitalist things (like supporting capital and imperialism) and we shouldn’t give them a pass simply bc they like social programs. We’re allowed to call them out for stuff like that.
Not every way people do it is above board or the best way but I think it’s silly to say “we’re not gonna criticize socdems” it’s the same energy as liberals putting their candidates above criticism for equally “pragmatic reasons”
and dont make it clear they hate the dem establishment more than AES lmao, if you can support a coup against maduro u can support one against pelosi
yeah fuck the DNC and the democratic base, right back atcha bud lmao the competent imperialists the ones were supposed to like i guess?
calling the victims of americas global imperialism morons LMAO ok buddy enjoy ur functioning not collapsing country where u cant go outside, ur so damn pragmatic thanks for the student massacre in 68
youre not wrong and im pretty sure they dont disagree with you either, rather the last time we had people saying this outloud in american politics they were all murdered on TV. our government committed crimes against its own people in the 60s too. i think the only point trying to be made is that social democracy is the only thing anybody can advocate for in a political forum here. anything more is at best ignored, at worst... dealt with
a revolution is not a dinner party
not to shit on socdems, socimperialists, socdems are socdems the worldaround and theyre largely just reformists
oof
I forget where I got this from, I think someone made a joke with it on the CTH sub and I figured I would add it to the litany of alts I was using on there.
I think I was also fresh off seeing that list of fake american baseball players for an old Japanese video game and thought it would fit perfectly.
Ok but who gives a shit what a bunch of imperialist westerners think about global politics?
I’m mostly with you, demsocs should be criticized but they’re mostly fine, socdems aren’t really our friends and it’s kinda silly to pretend otherwise. There’s historical reasons to be wary of it and I mean if Democrats are controlled opposition, are socdems as well?
They’re basically called in to defend capitalism when it’s on its last leg, e.g. the new deal era policies, that can be undone later when the masses are placated.
I know we’re between a rock and a hard place here, but recognizing that only placating capital gets you elected, at what point are you just complicit in its imperialism and exploitation by capitulating to its demands?
And if you’re aware of all that’s going on in capital, is being one out of 200+ people to vote “no” ocassionally on a bill that guts social security really a success? (And vote yes to go bomb over exploited countries in the global south in the case of both Aoc and Bernie btw. So is material, lethal harm to global poor so the privleged few in the imperial core can have healthcare ok? Because that’s how they vote)
Especially compared to fighters in imperialized nations who fight literally for their and their people’s freedom?
Bc in my view saying get “in line” with that is materially indiscriminate from any liberal saying “biden won y’all, time to go with the party line, don’t disrupt or you’ll cost us the seats to republicans.”
I think people in power should be criticized even, socialists we mostly agree with. If nothing else to remind ourselves that our elected leaders should be doing better and these are the ways they could be doing it.
Makes sense when you consider Bernie and co have been telling everyone that socialism is when the government gives you healthcare and free college. We need class consciousness and solidarity not self-identified socialists. One can recognize the effect Bernie and company have had pulling apoliticals as well as some libs and chuds to a socdem position, but they won't send them any farther left than that. Part of actually dragging soc dems left is, uhh, calling out when their positions or their favorite politician's positions are wrong, and challenging assumptions and misconceptions they often have in particular with regards to imperialism. Left unity is for people who actually want to abolish capitalism.
deleted by creator
Voters don't even know what social democrats even are (they're like super democrats, right? (Yes)) and she did win by paying lip service, to Medicare for all and revolting against the establishment, so what's the point of winning when they just rollover as soon as they get into office?
Continue arranging the deck chairs if you want though.
youll have to fuckin kill me if you want my stalin memes asshole
Bad take
Yes, but consider this, it's actually a good take.