The labour minister announces a major reform to the communist country's state-controlled economy.

uhh can anyone debunk this if it isn't true, or clarify if this is some dengist thing

Labour Minister Marta Elena Feito said the list of authorised industries had expanded from 127 to more than 2,000.

Only a minority of industries would be reserved for the state, she said.

  • leftcompride [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Cuba was never socialist. They are moving from a misguided inefficient form of capitalism to a proven efficient form of capitalism. This is good for the Cuban people, but the move itself is irrelevant as far as socialism is concerned.

      • leftcompride [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Love to make jokes about abuse. Guess the "woke" facade drops when people who can actually smell ur bullshit come in.

          • Pavlichenko_Fan_Club [comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            All discussion of 'woke' aside it would be pretty suspect for a Marxist to deride any discussion of the commodity form as something 'purely imaginary' that 'haunts' an individuals psyche. Why do you think Marx spends so much time in the beginning of Capital about the appearance of the commodity? Yeah its not real in the sense of an actualized, material thing, but things can and do emerge out of relations. So what actually is your point?

            Honestly this whole thread is filled with dumpster-tier thinking that is just memes, and pointing at meaningless signs. So very few have even attempted at answering as to what actually is happening / how this changes things, and even fewer as to how this applies to anything. As materialists we should be concerned with the mechanics of society, not be reduced to mere petty arguments about 'good' versus 'bad'--as if being 'Left' is a subculture.

              • leftcompride [none/use name]
                ·
                4 years ago

                cope even harder. Imagine im a blonde blue eyed imperialist billionaire if it makes you feel better.

                              • leftcompride [none/use name]
                                ·
                                4 years ago

                                Its more like Im entertaining you. I have no idea why a random irishman is being triggered about my accurate assessment of "AESC"

                                • Catiline [he/him]
                                  ·
                                  4 years ago

                                  All your ‘assessment’ has amounted to is historically ignorant drivel that treats Marxism as a dogma rather than an continuously evolving guide to action based upon material conditions.

                                  • leftcompride [none/use name]
                                    ·
                                    4 years ago

                                    The arguments we are having now are the same arguments Marx was having with other socialists of his time. It's exceedingly clear you haven't read Marx if you think what I'm saying is "dogma". If socialism is simply what China or Cuba or NK is doing, or if they are on "the path to socialism", then what even is the contribution of Marx? Socialists were calling for "worker ownership" before Marx was even born.

                                    • Catiline [he/him]
                                      ·
                                      4 years ago

                                      And?

                                      For someone who harps incessantly about analysis your posts are utterly vapid.

                                      Yes, there were arguments about it in Marx’s times, arguments about it when Lenin instituted the NEP and arguments about it in the numerous universities today in Cuba and China where many people study for Doctorates in Marxism like any other science.

                                      Can you meaningfully explain why Cuba’s or China’s method of building socialism is inherently invalid or will you rave in vagaries forever?

                                      • leftcompride [none/use name]
                                        ·
                                        4 years ago

                                        Can you meaningfully explain why Cuba’s or China’s method of building socialism is inherently invalid or will you rave in vagaries forever?

                                        They are capitalist states and have been for decades lmfao. They had a shitty inefficient capitalist system that they gleefully called socialism and now they are moving towards the kind of capitalism all other countries have. The "build productive forces" thing is a meme. It's a euphemism for just plain capitalist development. There is no way to say whether they will move to socialism or not, but socialism is a movement of the working class. China is a country that prevents the formation of independent unions, they have the same pattern of divergence between productivity and wages. The working class is not in power in China. The fact that the govt intervenes sometimes in favor of the working class doesnt mean anything other than that China is a social democracy, like Norway.

                                        The end result of this "build productive forces" nonsense is that you have to actively support capitalism. It is the same opportunist bullshit that workers fought against and lost in the USSR, when the Soviets were disarmed and worker revolts violently suppressed.

                                        • Catiline [he/him]
                                          ·
                                          4 years ago

                                          They are capitalist states and have been for decades lmfao. They had a shitty inefficient capitalist system that they gleefully called socialism and now they are moving towards the kind of capitalism all other countries have

                                          I’m going to graciously ignore how you answered my inquiry of ‘why do you think these places are capitalists’ with what essentially amounts to ‘because they are capitalist’ tautology. About the level of discourse I’d expect from someone who indignantly states it’s clear I’ve never read Marx. I’m going to use Cuba as the example in the following argument, but much of its content applies to China and the Soviet Union.

                                          Cuba had a revolution against a CIA backed puppet with a golden telephone as a gift from AT&T for being such a good lapdog. Without partaking in imperialist exploitation, Fidel Castros government engaged in agrarian land reform, expropriation of the bourgeoisie, campaigns in literacy, medicine and electrification, taking a population that was largely bound in virtual plantation serfdom with endemic foot parasites to a country that would exceed the United States in several metrics of health, such as HIV prevention and birth care.

                                          Cuba would quite literally dispatch military units to assist in revolutionary activity in Africa, directly fighting against imperialist hegemony there and while it can no longer engage in open warfare it still sends tens of thousands of doctors as a method to help their fellow countries.

                                          If you cannot distinguish between a capitalist, imperialist state such the USA or any in Europe and one that explicitly offers it’s (again, previously illiterate) citizens education along Marxist lines which is a perquisite to achieving socialism, actively fights against Imperialism and builds actual means of production to be socialized because it still retains aspects of capitalism as a necessary expedient when under siege then I can’t help you. Maybe you should try reading Marx.

                                          • leftcompride [none/use name]
                                            ·
                                            4 years ago

                                            "Ive read Marx!!" "Also explain why Cuba is capitalist"

                                            You haven't read Marx. Cuba has wage labor, capital, money, commodity-production, profit, exploitation etc. Worst part is that because of the epic meme of "state ownership=socialism", prices dont even reflect labor content. In capitalism we say that workers dont receive their "full wage" because the capitalist pockets some of it. This only makes sense because the price reflects the labor content of products, due to competition, SNLT is a thing. When prices dont even reflect labor content and is purely fictional like in Cuba or NK, the exploitation is even more opaque than under capitalism. So Cuba moving towards normal capitalism from state capitalism is a good thing.

                                            It doesnt matter how much charity a govt does or how anti-imperialist they are. Socialism is not defined by those things.

                                            • Catiline [he/him]
                                              ·
                                              4 years ago

                                              You haven’t read Marx. Cuba has wage labor, capital, money, commodity-production, profit, exploitation etc.

                                              So Cuba moving towards normal capitalism from state capitalism is a good thing.

                                              It doesnt matter how much charity a govt does or how anti-imperialist they are. Socialism is not defined by those things.

                                              Turning illiterate peasants into literate workers and providing them with socialist education to produce a class conscious working class does not constitute validly developing socialism which inherently requires a politically conscious working class, apparently.

                                              Terminal case of infantile disorder.

                                              • leftcompride [none/use name]
                                                ·
                                                4 years ago

                                                Socialism is when you educate people. Also good job ignoring literally everything in that post

                                                • PaulWall [he/him]
                                                  ·
                                                  4 years ago

                                                  what, telling people to read books you yourself haven’t read, will do to a mf

                                                  • Praksis [any]
                                                    ·
                                                    4 years ago

                                                    Can't tell who you agree with here edit: o wait nvm no i got it now

                                                    • PaulWall [he/him]
                                                      ·
                                                      4 years ago

                                                      i have, im saying you are the one posturing. imagine acting like kant isn’t relevant to an understanding of hegel and marx’s usage of dialectics. and also zizek is a materialist lmfaooo, a main thesis of his is that hegel was one also btw

      • leftcompride [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Nope, they were never socialist. Can you define socialism for me? Because if your definition of socialism is "state owns capital", then yes it is socialist, but no Marxist would call it socialist.