It's also a part of the discourse because there are people who legitimately think similar things should be done to children of elites in the future. There's stakes behind this because there might be a day where the revolution is in your backyard. You might be wearing a uniform. You might be one of those handful of soldiers. If you are, and if you find yourself in a similar position, I hope you make a different choice.
think similar things should be done to children of elites in the future
Abolishing the right of parental inheritance and the right to property is going to mean the imprisonment and murder of a lot of people who will resist it. Now I dont see many places in the world where any of us are going to have to think about killing small children, but we have to be willing to win and be as ruthless to our enemies as they will be to us. Its not about killing innocent people, its about power. The quicker you can realize that the better you'll be able to respond to questions like "do I kill the Romanov children?"
What do you mean it's only about power? Bad shit isn't suddenly not bad because you're fighting for a cause. Revolution is not an amoral act. Revolution is the ultimate moral act and the ultimate moral decision. You cannot divorce morality from revolution without destroying the justification for revolution itself. The quicker you can realize that the better you'll be able to respond to questions like "do I kill the Romanov children?"
Doesn't that bring us back to the question the trolly problem about murdering a child or providing a figure for a reactionary White Army of racists, monarchists, and fascists to rally behind, not mentioning the de jure right for the other bougeoise monarchs to interfere to protect their cousins?
Maybe so. But it's better to struggle with that question than to pretend that we're absolved of responsibility just because it's a war.
You can find figureheads anywhere, and even if one didn't exist, they could have dredged up a "Romanov" from somewhere or tried to turn the family into martyrs. Lord known enough people over the years have claimed to be descendants. Killing the kid provides just as much of a de jure right for other monarchists as keeping him alive, and maybe even a stronger one.
Magical what-if trolley land is nice and all, but it doesn't take away from the concrete facts here. And the concrete facts here are that they put a child on the wall and the fighting kept going because killing him did fuck all.
Maybe your just an idealist still, and thats all right, but I'm not. I look at everything in shades of what gets and achieves power first, then what we do with it. I'm just not there at the just and moral revolution anymore, and nothing really screams revolution to me than extirpating a horrendous monarchy and leaving it unable to come alive again. The capitalists are going to and have thrown hell at us, there no evil in being a demon in those circumstances.
You dont get to make that decision. When the capitalists throw child soldiers and suicide bombers at us, I'll shoot em and take your nightmares. Global communist revolution is not going to be a grand and pretty thing, millions of people will die in horrible ways.
I was kind of with you until you started with the masturbatory "holier than thou" bullshit. The Romanov children could have been handled better but you are legitimately delusional if you actually believe a revolution can be 100% morally clean, that's just not how things work.
Hell even in an anarchist revolution there were excesses, CNT/FAI killed a bunch of nuns for pretty much no good reason. It's something that's going to happen, sometimes the fault will be with evil people just wanting to do violence, sometimes it will be an accident, sometimes it will be misinformation, but it's for sure going to happen and there's not much you can do about it. You can and should minimize it but it will happen.
You dont get to make that decision. When the capitalists throw child soldiers and suicide bombers at us, I’ll shoot em and take your nightmares. Global communist revolution is not going to be a grand and pretty thing, millions of people will die in horrible ways.
I disagree with the premise. I think if Corona proved anything its that there is no circumstance where Americans at large will make sacrifices. People won't even put masks on to stop mass slaughter I don't think there is any chance they will go out and die for very online political philosophies.
Climate change probably isnt going to be much better then either. I have a feeling there will be something, the contradictions are just too fucking intense. If not a radical revolt then some reactionary dystopia will take over/ continue consolidating power against anything even remotely left wing, foreign or domestic.
It's also a part of the discourse because there are people who legitimately think similar things should be done to children of elites in the future. There's stakes behind this because there might be a day where the revolution is in your backyard. You might be wearing a uniform. You might be one of those handful of soldiers. If you are, and if you find yourself in a similar position, I hope you make a different choice.
Abolishing the right of parental inheritance and the right to property is going to mean the imprisonment and murder of a lot of people who will resist it. Now I dont see many places in the world where any of us are going to have to think about killing small children, but we have to be willing to win and be as ruthless to our enemies as they will be to us. Its not about killing innocent people, its about power. The quicker you can realize that the better you'll be able to respond to questions like "do I kill the Romanov children?"
What do you mean it's only about power? Bad shit isn't suddenly not bad because you're fighting for a cause. Revolution is not an amoral act. Revolution is the ultimate moral act and the ultimate moral decision. You cannot divorce morality from revolution without destroying the justification for revolution itself. The quicker you can realize that the better you'll be able to respond to questions like "do I kill the Romanov children?"
Doesn't that bring us back to the question the trolly problem about murdering a child or providing a figure for a reactionary White Army of racists, monarchists, and fascists to rally behind, not mentioning the de jure right for the other bougeoise monarchs to interfere to protect their cousins?
Maybe so. But it's better to struggle with that question than to pretend that we're absolved of responsibility just because it's a war.
You can find figureheads anywhere, and even if one didn't exist, they could have dredged up a "Romanov" from somewhere or tried to turn the family into martyrs. Lord known enough people over the years have claimed to be descendants. Killing the kid provides just as much of a de jure right for other monarchists as keeping him alive, and maybe even a stronger one.
Magical what-if trolley land is nice and all, but it doesn't take away from the concrete facts here. And the concrete facts here are that they put a child on the wall and the fighting kept going because killing him did fuck all.
It's actually not better to struggle with the question during a make or break moment. Not many people know this.
Maybe your just an idealist still, and thats all right, but I'm not. I look at everything in shades of what gets and achieves power first, then what we do with it. I'm just not there at the just and moral revolution anymore, and nothing really screams revolution to me than extirpating a horrendous monarchy and leaving it unable to come alive again. The capitalists are going to and have thrown hell at us, there no evil in being a demon in those circumstances.
Fine then. Be a butcher. You're no comrade of mine.
You dont get to make that decision. When the capitalists throw child soldiers and suicide bombers at us, I'll shoot em and take your nightmares. Global communist revolution is not going to be a grand and pretty thing, millions of people will die in horrible ways.
Do whatever you want, but don't say you're doing it for me. We may not be enemies but we're not comrades either.
literally the lamest conversation I've ever read
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I mean I'm still holding out a sliver of hope that something like that will happen but realistically that's gonna be very far from the truth.
I was kind of with you until you started with the masturbatory "holier than thou" bullshit. The Romanov children could have been handled better but you are legitimately delusional if you actually believe a revolution can be 100% morally clean, that's just not how things work.
Hell even in an anarchist revolution there were excesses, CNT/FAI killed a bunch of nuns for pretty much no good reason. It's something that's going to happen, sometimes the fault will be with evil people just wanting to do violence, sometimes it will be an accident, sometimes it will be misinformation, but it's for sure going to happen and there's not much you can do about it. You can and should minimize it but it will happen.
The nuns 🤝 the Romanovs Being no angels
How hard was your cock when you posted this?
:le-monke: Big PeePee :le-monke:
I have to ask have you been in a fight in your entire life?
Several.
Well I hope you don't get domed by like the Iowa national guard during the American uprising them
I probably am! Communist revolution/fascist victory means we're probably all or most of us are going to die, in very horrible ways.
I disagree with the premise. I think if Corona proved anything its that there is no circumstance where Americans at large will make sacrifices. People won't even put masks on to stop mass slaughter I don't think there is any chance they will go out and die for very online political philosophies.
Climate change probably isnt going to be much better then either. I have a feeling there will be something, the contradictions are just too fucking intense. If not a radical revolt then some reactionary dystopia will take over/ continue consolidating power against anything even remotely left wing, foreign or domestic.
What is the justification for revolution? Do you think your explanation holds up when looking at real revolutions?