• Tankiedesantski [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      More education and economic opportunities for the general population, supplemented by re-education with work skills for the small proportion of the population most at risk of committing terrorism is basically the least harsh approach to religious terrorism that's been implemented anywhere.

    • ComradeMikey [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      I am genuinely asking do you have a source thats not adrain zenz for the forced labour Im open to changing my mind if given proper information

                • gammison [none/use name]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  I have no idea where that image is from, but you can find public police blogs and Cadre reports all over Chinese social media that do give some insights that are pretty uncomfortable.

                  Edit: oh its those ny times documents. Yeah some of them are quite wierd like that. The only non "they're fake" explanation would be that non native mandarin speakers wrote them which is like is possible considering Uyghur and Kazakhs are more likely to not be fluent in writing Mandarin, and could have written some of those reports as part of their jobs. That seems unlikely but not impossible (I mean you can absolutely find posts that look like that on Chinese social media in Xjinjiang and Tibet). And it may be in a more rurual area that a local cadre has those people in it. That said, still rare. On the other hand, them being fake I also don't know about because any effort to fake documents like that and sent to the times could easily have had actual translations done considering they also must have marked them enough to look like they were made in china for the times. It also doesn't look like Google translate as a whole.

                  If I had to bet, I'd err in favor that a non native mandarin speaking/writing local official wrote them if they are in fact real.

          • ColonelKernel [comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Counterpoint:

            It is unclear what the “consequences” will be, but what is clear from the documents:

            1. These are PRISONS and not “re-education or vocational training” schools. They are prisons because they are NON-VOLUNTARY. If an adult is kept from their families against their will and they are being indoctrinated against their will, then they are prisons.
            1. The people in them are overwhelmingly NOT CRIMINALS and NOT TERRORISTS. I’m sure they swept up (by sheer chance) some potential terrorists, but they are imprisoning mostly non-criminals and non-terrorists. People have been imprisoned for having long beards, keeping Islamic books, and essentially practicing their faith. So, the imprisonments are very widespread. They are not targeted at suspected terrorists. One county party secretary was arrested for releasing 7000 of 20,000 prisoners and he was accused: "refused to round up everyone who should be rounded up". So, the 20,000 is less than what he SHOULD have rounded up. Adrian Zenz has a spreadsheet with 10,000s of people listed as imprisoned.
            1. More precisely: “In Yarkand, a county of about 800,000 people in southwestern Xinjiang, 96 percent of the population is Uighur. Six official spreadsheets about six villages dated 2018 show that, on average, nearly 16 percent of the rural adult population was either interned or in prison. In two villages in Kosherik Township — which the documents describe as “heavily polluted by extremist ideology” — nearly 60 percent of all households had one person or more interned.”
            1. Here is a very detailed analysis of the documents which show beyond a doubt that these are PRISONS (not in the legal sense but in terms of involuntary detention): http://www.jpolrisk.com/wash-brains-cleanse-hearts/
            • richietozier4 [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Here is a very detailed analysis of the documents which show beyond a doubt that these are PRISONS (not in the legal sense but in terms of involuntary detention): http://www.jpolrisk.com/wash-brains-cleanse-hearts/

              By Adrian Zenz, Ph.D. Senior Fellow in China Studies Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation

              only citation lol

        • ComradeMikey [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          do you have anything other than the fake documents? i dont find zenz reputable at all

          • ColonelKernel [comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            You ask for non-Zenz, I gave you non-Zenz, and now you've revealed yourself to be participating in bad faith.

            Shame on you.

            • ComradeMikey [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              the other stuff you posted later on used zenz as a citation thats why i asked for non zenz. and this one was a fake (I had seen it before) just because it came from the times doesn’t make it credible.

                • ComradeMikey [he/him]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  these are just the same documents from the times article and their “statistical validation “ comes from someone absolutely shilling for imperialism for every other situation why should I trust him now. Zenz is a fundamentalist zionist and objectively a bad source. the guy hasn’t even visited the province he’s a so called expert in the past 15 years or so!

                  I really want evidence that is not these butchered fake leaks or zenz and its all detractors offer me.

                  as for the personal attack of saying im a tool of empire....you’re the one doing the CIAs job fueling second cold war dont fling that at me.

                  don’t be that guy