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the good old Socdem:gold-demsoc: :unity: :scared-fash: Fascist unity

Jacobin Bad

  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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    edit-2
    4 years ago

    actually it's cynical & not reflective of the facts on the ground to compare Black America's plight with that of Uyghurs in Xinjiang. I would really say it's the exact opposite

    Uyghurs have always had autonomy & legally recognized protected status & statehood in PRC, something Black Americans still yearn for in their country

    Black Americans in certain poor & deindustrialized areas do not have any such prospects, whereas Uyghurs voluntarily join these vocational training centres & are given uplift and are integrated into the economy & society

    https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/08/512399/uyghurs-freely-join-re-education-camps

    Black people in many areas in the US actually face far worse demonstrable discrimination & violence by the state than any Uyghur

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    US does need to focus on its own problems, I agree

                    which means we should probably stop trying to make a boogieman out of PRC offering development to historically underdeveloped areas

                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        I don't think it's true either way, because US intelligence also claimed just the other day that no genocide is occurring in PRC

                        https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/

                        But again, all of this is assuming that knee-jerk subconscious reactions & bone-deep Sinophobia aren't the real underpinnings to most of this media barrage in the West

                        The semantically & factually correct statement would read, "Black America on a normal day faces far worse discrimination & systemic violence than any Uyghur in Xinjiang"

                          • volkvulture [none/use name]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            I would rather make concise true statements than to clumsily expand & corrupt the commonly accepted meaning of these words and equate the two situations... PRC & USA's social & economic situations & history are not to be equated

                            I don't need to disarm your talking point, I am just pointing out how cynically it's constructed. If you are at all trying to say that PRC's development & outreach in Xinjiang is comparable to how police treat Black Americans in the US, then it's not a true or semantically correct statement

                            There is no challenge. The truth doesn't really need our opinions or our imprecise syntactic constructions

                              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                edit-2
                                4 years ago

                                The liberal talking point doesn't have any facts to stand on lol. So all we really need is to point out circa 2014 liberal media coverage of murders & extremist unrest in Xinjiang, and the rest should follow logically

                                No, it's not up to Marxists to fundamentally change people, all Marxists can do is clarify the conditions that exist & offer alternative analyses & historical context... hopefully point out contradictions & correcting the revolutionary line along the way. People still have to be willing to disengage with liberal & imperialist propaganda, and revolutionary conditions still have to present themselves. Marxists do not create revolution or class consciousness, these are things that take shape regardless of Marxian analysis, they are objective

                                Marx says that the point is to change the world. I think changing people is far less straightforward than that

                                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                    edit-2
                                    4 years ago

                                    You're right that facts do not care about liberals' feelings, but that's sort of the point of this whole exchange

                                    Yes, we can't fundamentally change people on this metaphysical or spiritual plane, we can only offer clarification of the really existing situation & historical context. There is still "free will" here& usually people in the West will cling to "China bad" or "Russia bad" regardless of the truth