Even other neurodivergent people will enable behaviors that trigger RSD, maybe because it doesn't hurt them as bad, or they've learned to cope with it better, or whatever. But anyway, we aren't approaching the problem of RSD radically enough. We have to change the way we communicate with people on a fundamental level. Anti-ableism isnt just about not using certain naughty words. For neurodivergent people to be safe in society, it requires a completely radical rewiring of how communication works. I don't know how that will work exactly. I understand that sometimes it causes problems with intersectionality (though I think the way people just throw the anti-ableism side of that discussion out the window completely is fucking disgusting, again this is something that even neurodivergent people will do, because intersection is complicated and people don't like complicated things so they jump to one side or the other and for some reason ableism always loses out in those clashses) but I still think its incredibly important.
100% agree -
smalltangent but the way that rsd messes with your relationships to authority figures within the educational system is something that can totally fuck you over even if you perform well within that system.my refusal of reading feedback on assignments and such due to the dread of having to face criticism even from teachers that are "cool" is coming back to bite me in the ass because i just keep pushing it further and further back into my mind bc of rsd even though i logically know that they're trying to help me and it's never as bad as i think it's going to be. even if i know i've half-assed an assignment and i shouldn't care as much about it it still hangs over me like a fucking cloud. & sure learning how to deal with that is part of having (undiagnosed) adhd or something similar but it still sucks.
i have no idea where i was going with this except something like the way we communicate is inextricably tied to our surroundings and giving teachers and nd kids ways of communicating that don't lead to the kind of bullshit that grades are tied up in and so on is probably a small but important step. sorry for rambling you know how it is
edit: formatted for readability
oh shit I have ADD and this is something I've also had to learn how to deal with. It definitely sucks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, (and also I'm not trying to own you or anything like that just to be clear) but it seems like you're unaware that ADD was reclassified as ADHD-PI, aka Primarily Inattentive type ADHD. Within the last couple decades, doctors/psyches realized that ADD and ADHD were two different presentations of the same condition so they reclassified everything as ADHD, but added 3 subtypes:
- Hyperactive-Impulsive (stereotypical ADHD type, actually the least common of the 3)
- Primarily Inattentive (fka ADD)
- Combined (most common type, think of it as having both ADD and ADHD)
They've also started to refer to them more as presentations of ADHD because the subtypes are more like regions on a spectrum rather than discrete categories, and people with ADHD can be more/less hyperactive and/or inattentive over time or in specific circumstances. For example, I was diagnosed with ADD initially back in the mid 2000s and I'm very much on the inattentive side of the spectrum, but I still display signs of hyperactivity on a somewhat regular basis. Namely I bounce my leg constantly, I pace around my house at least once a day, and I have some troubles with impulsivity and impatience.
TL:DR: ADD is a specific presentation of ADHD, so it makes perfect sense that you've dealt with RSD.
Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It's a component of the emotional dysregulation aspect of ADHD characterized by an overly negative response to rejection/criticism, whether it be real or perceived/imagined. This over response can manifest itself anywhere between a major depressive episode with suicidal tendencies to blind rage (though obviously major depression/blind rage are going to be extreme cases). Often times people who experience RSD will feel like they've been physically hurt, iirc usually some sort of feeling along the lines of being punched in the gut.
Afaik it hasn't been studied very thoroughly as a distinguished component of the emotional regulation problems cause by ADHD, so I'd hesitate to use it as freely as many people with ADHD do. That said, a lot of us, myself included, identify with it very heavily.
I'm no expert, but its always seemed like to me that having an open line of communication where those issues can be expressed without judgement is the simplest way to negate the social effects of stuff caused by neurodivirgency. Shut up and listen to the people to find out what needs to be done, I guess.
Apparently I am wrong. Apparently it is actually up to neurodivergent people to like, talk to their therapist or whatever when they feel the effects of RSD. Society doesn't need to change to make the world more equitable for people with disabilities!!! Its up to the disabled people to change things they pathologically can't help!
Yeah, that's def the wrong take and I'm sorry someone was throwing that at you. Being ND of course isn't a free pass to lash out at people, but having compassion for mistakes is important.
What kind of behaviors trigger RSD? I'm trying to learn more about this.
Well specific to this case is strong authoritive sounding callouts. I don't mind explanations at all. But tone matters a lot. The problem is that because i care about tone im getting accused of tone policing. Which isn't even what tone policing means right? Tone policing is dismissing someone's argument because they said it with emotion I thought?
Tone policing is a chud thing, I thought? Asking someone to mellow out is fine if you're nice enough about it.
I've been accused of that when someone is straight up mansplaining to me and I tell them to knock it the fuck off lol
In the first two incidents, a woman admin called me on perceived sexism. The first time, I made a comment on how women in other leftist servers I'm in have made me used to one sort of thing and how the discord acts very different about that thing, which I intended as a "This is my previous experiance (which I rely on very much as an autistic person) and things are very different here, can you clarify why things are different here". It turned into a huge thing where everyone was saying I had a "chud take", but mostly this on woman admin called me out.
After that there was another incident where I said something about women friends being more likely to playfully flirt with each other, except actually I was asking if that was what someone ELSE meant, like I was asking a clarifying question. Once again this same admin called me out on in, because she perceived it as sexist. Once again, it wasn't my intent in the statement at all, and I was in fact asking a question and not even making a statement.
After these incidents I made the request that if this sort of thing comes up again, I addressed in this way: "Hey draggo, what you said sounds like you're saying [x], is that what you intended?" because it would help soften the blow and avoid RSD, and wouldn't be assuming the worst intent from a comrade.
Almost everyone, except for the root admin of the site themself, decided I was tone policing women with this request. Including multiple ND users on there. I acknowledged that I could do better at not being so reactive when being called out, but the other side of things didn't want to meet me halfway. If anything, I see this situation as a complicated intersection between feminism and anti-ableism. But that wasn't accepted, including by an autistic admin on there. Most people took the stance that I was tone policing women.
Then this latest incident came up, which I described in another reply to you. Somehow I'm still tone policing women even though this one isn't even about sexism.
this is very one-sided and really isn't fair. people on the admin team have RSD as well (or other instances of neurodivergence) and that needs to be respected too. it goes both ways.
This was a very very honest retelling of what happened. I don't know how I could have been more fair.
I don't see how this is going both ways at all. I feel like its all on me to change when I read what people are saying on there.
ETA: one person literally said the worst assimilationist take that people with RSD should have therapy instead of expecting accommodating behaviors.
ETA2: What made you come over here anyway? Now I feel like someone linked this post on there to mock me. Just like I was scared of. Just like my post saying I didn't even feel safe in the ND comm anymore because of people on the discord judging me from there.
ETA3: Maybe you're right. Maybe this is unfair. Maybe I'm not being equitable. I dont know what to do. I haven't felt this much constant RSD in so long. Its hitting me so hard and I can't think straight. This whole mess has me so mixed up and scared. I don't know what to do.
First things first, I was scrolling through chacha and saw the post. I didn't see what community it was in, which is my bad, and I didn't mean to overstep.
I just feel like this whole situation is taking a mental and emotional toll on both sides and wanted to point that out. I don't like seeing people say negative things about my friends. And I recognize that your perspective is yours and valid, but I was hoping by now the anxiety of it had come down a bit where I could point that out. I promise it was in completely good faith.
OK. I can understand that. Sorry for assuming the worst. But trying to rejoin the server and seeing that someone had mentioned this thread in there really shook me. So I was already paranoid.
The anxiety has not worn off for me. I am still extremely shaken by this whole thing and don't know what to do.
Oh I'm sorry to hear that. I didn't realize someone had mentioned it in the server, and if I see it again I'll try my best to shut that down immediately. Gossip doesn't do anyone any favors. Anything I can do to help?
I appreciate that so much! No I don't think there's anything you can do to help but I appreciate the thought. I'm just going to take some time off. Like, weeks off. Before I even think of going back.
The anxiety has not worn off for me. I am still extremely shaken by this whole thing and don’t know what to do.
I know I already said this in another comment, but while therapy can't prevent RSD, it is good for helping to get over it faster and get your emotional state back under control. Obviously it's up to you what you want to do, but if you have the time and/or money and/or motivation I would recommend seeking therapy to help on this. Something else I've also already mention that could help: disengage for a while. From personal experience I know it's much easier said than done, and I often get hyper-focused on things that trigger RSD for me, but continuing to engage with something that's triggering RSD for you is going to prevent you from being able to reign in you emotional state and think clearly. And lastly, just to be clear in my intentions and hopefully avoid any potential miscommunications or misunderstandings, I'm not trying to attack you or anything like that.
I have a zoom appointment with my therapist for this Friday.
this is very one-sided and really isn’t fair
If it isn't too much to ask, could you provide the other side of the story? As rules 2 and 3.5 in this community point out, people don't always interpret the same event the same way, especially if they're ND. So even if autismdragon isn't providing the full story, I'm assuming they're acting in good faith and telling their side of the story as close to accurate as they personally experienced it.
people on the admin team have RSD as well (or other instances of neurodivergence) and that needs to be respected too
This is true, but not everyone experiences their disabilities in the same way, and just because some of the people on the mod team also experience RSD doesn't make them immune from criticism on this issue if they acted wrongly. Like I said, please provide the other side of the story if the version we have isn't accurate, but from what autismdragon said, they asked for a fairly reasonable accommodation to make their RSD more manageable and were explicitly denied that accommodation by the mod team.
hi, okay so I was scrolling through chacha and didn't notice which community I was in, which is my bad. serious messages of harassment and abuse were left out of that story, which resulted in two people in a state of crisis trying to figure out how to communicate. I just wanted to point this out because some of the ableist accusations my friend is receiving is unfortunate, since she's trying her absolute best, is also ND, and had to deal mentally and emotionally with that as well.
(I promise, I did mean that in good faith, but the constant accusations are harmful for both sides)
hi, okay so I was scrolling through chacha and didn’t notice which community I was in, which is my bad
Thanks for the level headed response. I checked your profile, saw that you weren't subbed here and I was absolutely prepared to tell you to fuck off if you overstepped any boundaries lol.
As for the rest of what you said, I think it's best for everyone to disengage from this situation for a bit to calm down and collect themselves before addressing this again. I think it's also best to stay out directly engaging with autismdragon (especially if you're NT). Not saying you don't have anything to add to the matter, but due to differences in interpretations and experiences it can lead to a lot of misunderstandings and miscommunications if you're not careful. Instead I'd contact one of the mods here in the ND comm and see if they'd be willing to act as a mediator on this issue. Since both sides involve ND people, I think it's best to let someone who's also ND figure this out since they'd be better able to understand where each side is coming from.
understood. just want to clarify here and say that I am ND. idk, been getting accused of being NT a lot with all of this and it doesn't sit particularly well with me
I'm sorry for that. Wish you had said so earlier but still, I shouldn't be assuming. I just jump to that when I feel under attack.
Good to know. I saw you weren't subbed here, and while I never took that as a sign that you were definitely NT, it did make me suspect that you were, so thanks for clearing that you are in fact ND.
oh yeah I actually didn't know this was a community! I just found it today lol. but okay, all good. thanks
For the record, she is right that I left out some harassing DMs/abuse of the report system that I levied at the admin who originally upset me. This happened after the first incident. I apologize for that.
So I just learned this term and have incidentally been wondering if I have ASD/ADHD recently--
Is this unique to ADHD? Because while I've mostly been wondering about ASD in my case, this definitely resembles a pattern I've noticed in myself. I've had ridiculously debilitating meltdowns in response to thinking that I may be criticized, as in getting feedback on assignments like 27fireflies.
I think it's unique to ASD/ADHD insofar as it has a neurodevelopmental basis in those cases. There are other things like Avoidant Personality Disorder that can have similar features to RSD, but seem to be caused by trauma / environmental factors. (Although I have no background in psychology, so take that with a grain of salt. This was just my impression from reading about it.)
Its more commonly associated with ADHD but it can be associated with ASD too (personally I have both).
