apparently I've been owned. I don't know where/how y'all are getting cheap b12, but I can't afford $12 for a bottle right now lol

the best sub

I really appreciate this explanation, and I apologize for not seeing this earlier. I grew up as an ethnic minority being "hunted down," as you say, and so while I originally defended the conflation of oppression of animals to the oppression of minorities, I was mostly thinking about my own marginalized community. So, that said, I apologize for not recognizing the bigger picture that every POC, indigenous, and marginalized community has a wildly different cultural identity and relationship with their past. The usage of slavery, for example, in the argument for veganism triggers a generational trauma that we as leftists should not force on our comrades.

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it's not impossible to remove invasive species without killing them, you know

I (surprise, surprise), tend to disagree with a lot of what you said here. I feel as though egoism is being conflated with darwinism, and that's just not the case. individualist anarchism doesn't necessarily mean "no community," and it doesn't mean outright harming or disadvantaging others for the sake of yourself. I think of it more as an approach to rejecting social conditioning and creating your own meaning in life.

that said, I'm making dinner and don't have time to go full out, but I'll respond later on

(I should also add that I didn't necessarily mean to be alienating. I just wanted to share vegan theory for those of us who don't subscribe to moralism, because that type of theory is few and far between)

well I made the mistake of watching a video of something... bad. so it may not be that way for everyone. but (cw awful shit below, not too much detail)

Once you learn the intimate and gory details of how the pretty packaged food comes to exist, seeing it as obscene just kinda happens. I can't see cheese now without feeling discomfort in my lower abdomen/uterus-area ever since I found out how cows are forcefully impregnated

so it's three days too late, but this is kind of split in the vegan community, tbh. a lot of people ideologically believe that domesticating animals for our own gain is fucked, and it's hard to disagree with that when you think about it. that said, I'm a little more open to it, especially considering that most dogs and cats will be either adopted anyway or sent to a kill-shelter. the big absolute "no" is buying animals from puppy mills or places who source from puppy mills. those places can't profit or continue to run if we don't give them monetary support.

yeah but that's a slippery slope to go down. you could say the same thing for cows, for example. but at the end of the day, it's a) not true, because it implies exploitation and abuse, and b) it's not our place to decide what is best for another sentient being

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:meow-hug:

:abbie-cocktail: abbie hoffman with a molotov is a friday-morning-mood

this is a really good idea! I've been thinking on working on something similar for a friend who is going vegan, so I'll keep this post in mind and share once I have something all together

ah, maybe not. I have a little local shop that has vegan cheese that's pretty good, but that just may be a rarity. regardless tho, there are so many great recipes out there without the need for substitutes anyway

good, then we're glad you're here. because we're not a fan of it either

the thing I love the most about when they point to an impoverished person in another country is that it's saying "well, animals can't be liberated there yet due to these legitimate circumstances," and then I nod, agreeing, until they basically say "so it's classist and bourgeoise to try to do it anywhere else."

I think that's because amongst anarchists, "no hierarchy" means, well, "no hierarchy." that rule applies to all. in my opinion, it's hypocritical for an anarchist to not fight for animal liberation, but not necessarily for an ML because our beliefs just aren't the same. that's nothing against MLs, by the way. just pointing out the ideological differences there

I think what he's trying to say is that people on this site are already aggro as hell to vegans, and will take anything out of context if it helps their side. if these people can't get the idea that all animals are equal to human animals, then making this kind of comparison is just going to go over their heads and give them even more fuel to call us racist or idealist or some other shit

if you need some articles to convince you to take the final leap, let us know. lord knows we have plenty. but in the meantime, vegan butter/cheese/sour cream/etc etc etc all exists and is pretty good