Vegans are 100% correct and I've been slowly switching to vegan things (I'm already vegetarian) when I can, but that's taking into account that vegan choices tend to be more expensive and are something I consider a privilege to be able to do. When I say expensive, I mean all the various kinds of expense : some things can be literally more expensive, but in most cases it's expensive in terms of time and energy (researching, finding places to buy specific things, cooking) which are often forgotten.
A lot of people work and struggle and while yes they could be vegans, and yes a lot of things "are not more expensive or even cheaper", it's really blind to not realize the amount of time and energy you need when you're not already vegetarian/vegan. It takes time and effort, enough free time and/or mental energy to research, to prepare, learn to cook, etc., and it's helped by better material conditions in your life and a wider societal change in consumption a lot more than by pointless provocation.
In my own experience, even though I already agreed completely, it still took me a lot of time (and was helped when I stopped working for a while so I could get my head out of the grind and actually work on myself and change some habits) to change things, change habits, find what I like and where I could buy things I need without them being stupidly expensive (let's not ignore the fact that capitalism is very good at adapting and there is a HUGE grift of "healthy"/vegetarian/vegan products that are extremely over-priced and actually have much, MUCH bigger ecological or social footprint) while balancing the fact that I don't have that much time or energy to constantly get ingredients and cook them, find replacements to things I'm used to eating or already know how to do, I barely know how to cook to begin with, and I don't like cooking.
Don't get me wrong a lot of the "bullying" is fine and good, and I agree a lot of this site has an ugly reaction to veganism and it's fucking weird, but still.
Thank god veganism is correct and has very strong arguments on its own that would have always convinced me anyway, because I certainly wasn't convinced or helped in that path by online vegans.
I 100% agree too that veganism is correct but I do think that it can be a bit hostile sometimes as well. As much as it sucks, meat eating is ingrained in our cultures since basically the dawn of man, people are going to be slow to change their patterns on this especially when there's a lot of things that get in their way. Like "Hey vegetables are actually real cheap if you know how to cook them right" isn't going to do anything for people who don't know how (and are thus scared to) or don't have time to cook.
I've also seen mentioned before about things like "food trauma" wherein people being forced to eat things against their will as a child can often make it difficult for them as an adult. I have an aunt who won't eat cake or donuts or other "celebration" foods not because she doesn't like the taste but because she was forced into eating them to "be polite" at other parties by the same father who beat her. It's a psychological blockage that while it might be possible to get over, is really hard and clearly makes her feel a lot of pain to tackle. And when you look at how parents often handle vegetables when it comes to children, you can probably see how this thing pops up in many adults later on. Veggies are treated as a punishment, not normal food, and you get screamed and spanked if you don't eat them. Especially for people with other mental issues like those autistic kids (obviously not all autistic people but the ones who are like this) who can only be gotten to eat the most simple foods such as chicken nuggets or mac and cheese.
That's not to say that we should just shrug and give up on making the world vegan, but rather that we do need to approach it with a caring and understanding attitude as to why it can be so hard for people.
If you can afford to do so, I recommend obtaining a rice cooker and/or a crock pot. They great ways to cook food when you don't know how to cook. Because I'm a petit bourgeoisie piece of shit I have a rice cooker that steams vegetables at the same time and now a substantial portion of my meals are rice and assorted vegetables. I'm sure you could get a normal rice cooker to do the same, all you need is a basket that fits correctly with the bowl and the lid. Rice cookers are also good for making lentils, and sometimes I make lentils and rice at the same time to mixed success. The lentils are always a little crunchy but I'm sure if I soaked them/wasnt a lazy piece of shit then it'd work better.
I feel like I've explained the meaning of "expensive" already in detail in my comment.
For this specific example, yes, you're right, but i'm not eating only lentils every day of my life. I need a balanced diet of different things, some easier to get/cook than others. I also need to figure out what I like and try things and replacements for things I already like, maybe that's just me but habits are very hard for me to change and require an enormous amount of mental energy. Every little habit is something I don't have to think about or spend energy on, it's automated : I know what it is, where to get it, how to cook it, I like it, etc..
The expensive vege/vegan things are pre-prepared food and such things where you essentially buy the time/energy you don't have with more varied/nicer things, and I do buy some of those because I don't have a lot of time/energy. I'm trying to buy less of them and cook them more myself, but yet again that's a lot of time/energy.
Edit: also something else I thought of, vegetarian is now way easier and eating lentils to me is more vegetarian. Vegan is a bit of a step further in the amount of research and work you need to do to make sure animals aren't involved in the process, because holy shit the amount of times i've found out something I thought was innocuous is actually not vegan-friendly.
I think when people say "being vegan is more expensive", it stems from premade vegan items (donuts, premade dinners) being more expensive than their non-vegan counterparts.
Being a from-scratch vegan is cheaper. Buying premade is not only because of the vegan tax.
Vegans are 100% correct and I've been slowly switching to vegan things (I'm already vegetarian) when I can, but that's taking into account that vegan choices tend to be more expensive and are something I consider a privilege to be able to do. When I say expensive, I mean all the various kinds of expense : some things can be literally more expensive, but in most cases it's expensive in terms of time and energy (researching, finding places to buy specific things, cooking) which are often forgotten.
A lot of people work and struggle and while yes they could be vegans, and yes a lot of things "are not more expensive or even cheaper", it's really blind to not realize the amount of time and energy you need when you're not already vegetarian/vegan. It takes time and effort, enough free time and/or mental energy to research, to prepare, learn to cook, etc., and it's helped by better material conditions in your life and a wider societal change in consumption a lot more than by pointless provocation.
In my own experience, even though I already agreed completely, it still took me a lot of time (and was helped when I stopped working for a while so I could get my head out of the grind and actually work on myself and change some habits) to change things, change habits, find what I like and where I could buy things I need without them being stupidly expensive (let's not ignore the fact that capitalism is very good at adapting and there is a HUGE grift of "healthy"/vegetarian/vegan products that are extremely over-priced and actually have much, MUCH bigger ecological or social footprint) while balancing the fact that I don't have that much time or energy to constantly get ingredients and cook them, find replacements to things I'm used to eating or already know how to do, I barely know how to cook to begin with, and I don't like cooking.
Don't get me wrong a lot of the "bullying" is fine and good, and I agree a lot of this site has an ugly reaction to veganism and it's fucking weird, but still.
Thank god veganism is correct and has very strong arguments on its own that would have always convinced me anyway, because I certainly wasn't convinced or helped in that path by online vegans.
I 100% agree too that veganism is correct but I do think that it can be a bit hostile sometimes as well. As much as it sucks, meat eating is ingrained in our cultures since basically the dawn of man, people are going to be slow to change their patterns on this especially when there's a lot of things that get in their way. Like "Hey vegetables are actually real cheap if you know how to cook them right" isn't going to do anything for people who don't know how (and are thus scared to) or don't have time to cook.
I've also seen mentioned before about things like "food trauma" wherein people being forced to eat things against their will as a child can often make it difficult for them as an adult. I have an aunt who won't eat cake or donuts or other "celebration" foods not because she doesn't like the taste but because she was forced into eating them to "be polite" at other parties by the same father who beat her. It's a psychological blockage that while it might be possible to get over, is really hard and clearly makes her feel a lot of pain to tackle. And when you look at how parents often handle vegetables when it comes to children, you can probably see how this thing pops up in many adults later on. Veggies are treated as a punishment, not normal food, and you get screamed and spanked if you don't eat them. Especially for people with other mental issues like those autistic kids (obviously not all autistic people but the ones who are like this) who can only be gotten to eat the most simple foods such as chicken nuggets or mac and cheese.
That's not to say that we should just shrug and give up on making the world vegan, but rather that we do need to approach it with a caring and understanding attitude as to why it can be so hard for people.
If you can afford to do so, I recommend obtaining a rice cooker and/or a crock pot. They great ways to cook food when you don't know how to cook. Because I'm a petit bourgeoisie piece of shit I have a rice cooker that steams vegetables at the same time and now a substantial portion of my meals are rice and assorted vegetables. I'm sure you could get a normal rice cooker to do the same, all you need is a basket that fits correctly with the bowl and the lid. Rice cookers are also good for making lentils, and sometimes I make lentils and rice at the same time to mixed success. The lentils are always a little crunchy but I'm sure if I soaked them/wasnt a lazy piece of shit then it'd work better.
That is a great idea, and one of the flatmates just got a "multi-cooker" thingy that I was gonna try things on. Rice+X for every meal here I come!
Broccoli and lentils are both high in protein and various micronutrients! Plus steamed broccoli is my favourite food (:
Lots of great advice, thanks so much!
I don't understand the "VEGANISM IS SO EXPENSIVE" meme
lentils are literally the cheapest edible thing on planet earth
the only way veganism is expensive is if you live in a really bad food desert, which some do, but I guarantee most on here or reddit do not.
I feel like I've explained the meaning of "expensive" already in detail in my comment. For this specific example, yes, you're right, but i'm not eating only lentils every day of my life. I need a balanced diet of different things, some easier to get/cook than others. I also need to figure out what I like and try things and replacements for things I already like, maybe that's just me but habits are very hard for me to change and require an enormous amount of mental energy. Every little habit is something I don't have to think about or spend energy on, it's automated : I know what it is, where to get it, how to cook it, I like it, etc..
The expensive vege/vegan things are pre-prepared food and such things where you essentially buy the time/energy you don't have with more varied/nicer things, and I do buy some of those because I don't have a lot of time/energy. I'm trying to buy less of them and cook them more myself, but yet again that's a lot of time/energy.
Edit: also something else I thought of, vegetarian is now way easier and eating lentils to me is more vegetarian. Vegan is a bit of a step further in the amount of research and work you need to do to make sure animals aren't involved in the process, because holy shit the amount of times i've found out something I thought was innocuous is actually not vegan-friendly.
I think when people say "being vegan is more expensive", it stems from premade vegan items (donuts, premade dinners) being more expensive than their non-vegan counterparts.
Being a from-scratch vegan is cheaper. Buying premade is not only because of the vegan tax.
Yeah we need better culinary education, it's weird that our schools in the US barely cover diet let alone ever teach us how to cook for ourselves.
And even the diet classes have been infiltrated by marketing from the meat and dairy lobby.