• HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]
    ·
    3 years ago

    "They weren't nearly as stupid and evil as they could have been" seems to be a pretty common defense of the Founding Fathers and I just wanna know why

    • Tapirs10 [undecided,she/her]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Mostly because everyone assumes that all white people at the time all supported racism and slavery but people like John Brown and Karl Marx existed. It's difficult but not impossible to find not racist white people in the 1800s

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        There have always been abolitionists, like right from the very start of the African slave trade. But if you admit that you have to admit that all the slave owners knew that what they were doing was wrong.

        • Mardoniush [she/her]
          ·
          3 years ago

          To illustrate, in 1511 Pedro de Cordoba and his fellow monks publicly denounced and excommunicated everyone in Hispaniola in the sermon Ego sum vox clamantis in deserto. At church on Sunday, when everyone would be there.

          His opinion on the slaveowners was

          -All of you are in mortal sin; in it you live and in it you die.
          -In the state you are, you cannot be saved, as your behavior is equal to a lack of faith in Jesus Christ, and you have no desire for it
          -If you continue mistreating the Indians, know for sure that the sins you confess will not receive absolution.

          So yeah, they knew from the start that they were monsters, because fellow white people were calling them fucking monsters.

          • NephewAlphaBravo [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            3 years ago

            -If you continue mistreating the Indians, know for sure that the sins you confess will not receive absolution.

            I was raised catholic and I want to point out how dire this proclamation is, even the normally-unforgivable mortal sins don't retroactively make all of your other sins unforgivable. This dude fucking rules.

            • Mardoniush [she/her]
              ·
              3 years ago

              He was also head Spanish Inquisitor for the Americas at the time. So it's not some rando firebrand.

              • Frank [he/him, he/him]
                ·
                3 years ago

                The Inquisition in general is such a weird historical moment. It started off trying people who accused other people of witchcraft because believing that magic and witchcraft were real and that the devil could give people magic powers was heretical.

            • Frank [he/him, he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Christianity is kind of this grand historical tragedy because it's produced a lot of amazing individuals and thinkers while being on the whole a massive oppressive force. Catholics originated the idea of universal human rights in Europe when they declared that people in the Americas were human beings with souls just like everyone in the old world, then Catholics (presumably not the same Catholics) went on to enslave and murder millions and millions of people.

        • star_wraith [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Also, the founding fathers really show their asses about how they knew slavery was bad and wrong as they lived in constant fear of slave revolts in general and the Haitian revolution specifically. Instead of supporting people fighting for freedom against a colonial oppressor (like how they claimed they were doing in the revolutionary war) they embargoed them and refused to recognize their legitimacy.

        • Orannis62 [ze/hir]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Even besides the slaves themselves, who were obviously opposed