I step out of Hexbear and into another instance for once and immediately get this shit lmao
I was letting off some steam about how sick and tired I am about working a shit job to make some asshole rich, and I made an off hand remark about how my employer probably belongs in a gulag. Further down the reply chain, this lemmitor asshole shows up to send me a whole tirade full of faux concern, breaking out the psychoanalysis to say I'm just an extremist full of unjustified hatred because I must be a bitter loser. Somehow they come up with this nuclear hot take comparing my anger at the capitalist class to a Christian fundamentalist hating gay people.
But the fucking cherry on the top here is sending me this comment as their very first interaction with me and proceeding to instantly block me to deny me the chance to reply at all. I've seen others use the block feature as a means of getting the last word in, but never to get both the first and last word in at the same time. And in the end, this self-unaware lib ends up calling me the overly self righteous one. Perfect.
Tbh, what gets me is that they were so fucking close to getting it. They almost came to an accurate understanding of the fact that my material conditions as a poor person getting fucked over day in and day out by my employer stealing my labor will heavily inform my politics. But of course they never quite reach that point, instead bizarrely veering off into psychologizing me, and acting like this is all just some sort of character flaw on my part.
Rule one: https://hexbear.net/comment/4738025
Wow @wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com what a revelatory thought! It's almost like everyone's lives are getting worse and the people at the bottom are getting increasingly angry about it! It's almost like capitalism is failing and our numbers are increasing every single day while everyone gets increasingly more and more angry about that?
Wow it's almost like the system is not working and is producing the very conditions that will result in its overthrow!
Wow i wonder if any bearded guy wrote about this occurring.
Self righteous dumbass thinks belittling people at the bottom "your life is shit lol you don't get an opinion on society" is the right thing to do instead of asking why society is failing everyone and producing those of us who thoroughly believe the only way that anything will change is revolution.
The part you're roasting is especially vile because the lib's choice of insult only makes sense if one considers having nothing going on in life a personal moral failing on the part of the sufferer as opposed to, as you pointed out, peoples' objective conditions being shit and rapidly getting shittier.
It's wild how there are neoliberal ghouls on that nominally "leftist" instance. Really makes you wonder if there are some ideological problems with their particular brand of "leftism" that it is so immensely compatible with open chauvinism like that.
Wait, dbzer0 is supposed to be a leftist instance? Every time i see somebody from there comment on hexbear, it's either transphobia, homophobia, or shit-tier geopolitics takes, i would've expected them to be hardcore centrist chauvinists, basically like the brain genius in OP's post.
Isn't it? The instance owner is an "anarchist" and runs a comm for it, as we were all privileged with knowing when they decided to trawl for drama with reactionary bullshit. Perhaps that at least elucidates the main commonality in what we've seen:
When they were trawling, there was the classic of ultras and liberals arguing side by side repeating the same tired myths and hyperbole.
im still surprised db0 hasnt defederated from hexbear tbh, defederated from grad a long time ago.
db0 has always had fairly reasonable interactions with people here, and understands the presence of anarchists here.
Like, I've had PMs with them and while we have ideological differences there's a pretty clear understanding that we're still on the same side even if he doesn't want a state.
How he lets these ghouls use his instance is beyond me but it could be that it's not really explicitly leftist but simply run by one who isn't ideologically purging libs. This may be a calculation made to not get defederated elsewhere though. Lemmyworld and others would probably call for defed from it for being "tankie", regardless of ideology. They allow their coexistence because they're ideologically non-threatening.
"Why my antitankie space draws in reactionaries", every single time.
have they ever elaborated on why they defederated from lemmygrad? i still dont understand why someone would defed from one and not the other
Being explicitly tankie i presume. While this community is definitely mixed. I think db0 had some serious hangups over some of the "anti imperialist" support for russia that existed there, although I assume that line of thinking has probably changed a bit over time.
I also think that constant very vocal conversations about "genocide" probably helped cause it. The uighur shit was peaking at the time and a lot of anarchists were struggling with the liberals screaming about it being a real thing vs MLs very vocally and abruptly (and correctly) denying its reality. Anarchists with those hangups who were influenced by that shit have completely changed their tune since Palestine broke out, their expectations of evidence have been forced to change. Everyone understands what an actual genocide produces in way of media now in a country where everyone has smartphones.
God knows what the taiwan position was vs what it might have morphed into over time. I have a feeling it was probably previously supportive of the liberal position but I'm betting that it has now morphed towards that of "status quo" along with the island's population. Having watched what has happened to the people of Ukraine and what the US is supplying in Palestine it has probably caused a change of heart in terms of what's actually best for the people on that island. The US/Nato position is always the worst possible thing.
A lot has changed in the left since that defed. I'm willing to bet on many of the things that caused it having gone through a change of heart.
That is just false, do you not remember the saga with them baiting drama over muh tankies and Stalin apparently sending the red army to kill anarchists in Spain?
In fact, many of our mods/admins identify as LGBTQ+, including myself, and we always remove any posts that we deem to be transphobic or homophobic. It would be great if you could report any such posts so we can deal with them. All instances have to deal with problematic behavior from users from time to time, hexbear included. See example below.
*removed externally hosted image*
I report any incidence of queerphobia or other hate speech immediately, but these reports will always end up with hexbear mods because i am not interested in federation and browse local only. I'm fine with how our mods handle these reports, i've never had anything to complain about in that regard, but i can only report after somebody has attacked my comrades, my community or myself, so if i see another instance causing problems over and over again and making our queer comms less safe, i will speak out about that.
It is also kinda strange to me that you are invoking the anti-sectarian and "remember the human" rules here when i'm specifically adressing reactionary hate speech. Such speech enjoys zero protection on here, bigots cannot hide behind the rules you cite, i know from experience that this is widely understood both by the userbase and our moderation teams. This is a radical queer safer space, not some liberal salon, we do not tone police marginalized people, we do not demand civility towards queerphobes, ableists, misogynists and racists, and anti-sectarianism does not extend to middle of the road policies, particularly not when they are openly capitalist or imperialist.
FYI, if you report one of our users commenting on your instance, we would still get a report usually, unless there is something unique about the Hexbear instance in that regard. And I haven't seen many reports like that in a long time, usually because we ban those type of users immediately. I'm glad you are reporting people like that, and I'd like to know about it if it does occur. We don't tolerate any transphobic or homophobic content from our users.
Nobody is arguing with you that hate speech should be allowable. But you aren't addressing hate speech, you are accusing our whole instance of being a "non-leftist instance" because you claim some of our users have displayed queerphobia or other hate speech in the past. But you've given us no evidence or information we can act upon. It certainly feels like sectarianism when you are jumping straight to basically accusing our whole instance of not being "left enough" on this limited basis.
I just feel it would be more productive to work together to address these sort of issues, rather than being so hostile. I don't care how much more left you are than me, but I do care about how we moderate our instance, and if we can do it better then I'm open to suggestions.
It's really not "productive" at all how you're handling this when @Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.com was banned for homophobia just 5 days ago, when i've seen a transphobe from db0 get banned in the same timeframe (sorry i'm not giving you names and receipts on that one, it was something with 420 in the username, not gonna sift through all the shit in the modlog any longer) and you then accuse me of making up fake queerphobia claims for "sectarian reasons". In fact it's an incredibly shitty and hurtful thing to deny my experience with bigottry from your instance like that, but your dismissiveness fits well with what i've seen from you people.
I'd kindly ask you to discuss with our mod team if cross-instance reporting works correctly, which is all i have left to say on the matter because i honestly see no option but to disengage from this conversation. I'm out of here.
deleted by creator
Yeah, but that still leaves Unruffled@lemmy.dbzer0.com saying "using gay as an insult actually isn't homophobic" and seeing nothing wrong with one of their users posting such a take in a thread about queer liberation, a thread where the OP expressed his happyness about not being insulted as gay anymore when he doesn't bother to meet standards of toxic masculinity. That's the context the homophobic post in question was originally posted in, just to show you how out of place and tone deaf and shitty that take was. And Unruffled is like "hey, i see nothing wrong with any of that", directly quotes the homophobia apologia that accuses our comrade of taking it too seriously for "being insecure about his sexuality" and expressly agrees with all of it, all so he can continue to pester me with inane bullshit about me being sectarian just because i had the audacity to state my subjective and entirely honest impression that dbzer0 users never came off as leftists to me, which seems to have aggravated him so much that he, as a gay man, excuses homophobia to disprove my point.
I'm not even beginning to get into the absolutely insufferable amount of debate pervertry and the total lack of principle and self respect necessary to act the way he did, it's damning enough that he's shown his entire ass by excusing classic homophobic talking points and toxic masculinity while using his own gay identity as a shield. That's just fucking vile. I know fully well why our comrade started that thread the quoted take was posted in, i've been called gay and the f-slur all my life even before i came out as a trans woman. You do not get hit with this shit by people who "have nothing against gay people", you get hit with that shit because you do not meet cishetnormative policing of assigned male gender roles, which of fucking course also expressly targets gayness in itself, just not exclusively so, because it serves a wider purpose in upholding patriarchal notions of masculinity, but of course that attitude has always been inseperable from homophobia, it was just that it was so widely accepted and normalized that people engaging in it could easily deny their homophobic sentiments and their own participation in the opression of queerness.
And Unruffled openly states, i am quoting him verbatim now, "this is a perfectly reasonable take and not homophobic at all". What's he gonna do next when he comes back from his 14 day ban? Give out free F-slur passes?
Removed by mod
Did you see the comment in the OP? What do you think of that just going unchallenged? db0 is being a useless contrarian as they usually are, but are you more of an adult?
There's no need to shake our comrade here for receipts when we have vile shit right in front of us that is evidently A-OK in the view of the administration.
I can't see any examples of homophobia or hate speech in the OPs post. All OP seem to be doing is pointing out how toxic your ideology is, where anyone not in the hexbear 'club' is deemed to be the enemy. This has been pointed out on many previous occasions and remains true in large part to this day. I will acknowledge that there are also perfectly reasonable hexbear users, but unfortunately they often get drowned out by all the fanatics.
I don't care about litigating about Hexbear, you can hate it or whatever. What I am complaining about is the wizardbeard guy explicitly disparaging downtrodden people in favor of those who are doing well in the status quo. It's immensely social darwinist, to say nothing of the fact that even anarchists, to my understanding, care about things being counterrevolutionary.
Like, isn't the whole point of anarchism that the status quo is fucked and needs to be drastically changed? Don't you proudly self-identify as a type of radical [i.e. "extremist"]? If so, then doesn't this guy making blanket statements about extremists being scum seem to represent an issue?
User reports: Probably iffy on sectarianism.
I don't think this is far enough to warrant removal, but do be careful not to go full sectarianist.
They are really acting like blahaj users now aren't they? "It's okay to be bigoted to the other party if their politics is more radical than yours." In this case replace transphobia with ableism and behind-screen psychoanalysing. I also remember one blahaj mod who, after one of you guys said that ableist mods should be booted, said that booting bigoted mods makes you a tankie.
Rule 3, no?
Shut the fuck up and go purge the neoliberal chauvinists from your instance. When it's actually more recognizable as being anarchist rather than "left-ish with red scare characteristics", we can talk.
"Your specific brand of 'leftism'" did not refer to "anarchism", it referred to your specific brand, which attracts absolute slime like we see in the OP for reasons that you would do well to figure out.
CC: @blashork@hexbear.net this is my reasoning. If insulting someone's boutique nominally-anarchist (actually bidenist) instance is sectarianism, I invite you to take whatever moderation actions you deem appropriate to defend its sordid sanctity.
Well good to know that it's that easy to work around your community rules by just re-labeling the target as "not real leftists". As is tradition of course. Carry on then.
And down goes the paper-thin mask
My sibling in Christ, when you're done pissing your pants over my meanie gatekeeping, try actually reading the comments in the OP. That person is a chauvinist explicitly defending the status quo by saying, in so many words, that all "extremists" are mentally-ill losers looking to power trip. Are you saying that it's newspeak revisionism to claim that a message like that is probably not leftist? Please, tell me where Kropotkin says that revolution is only supported by the bitterest dregs of society and therefore invalid.
Of course you have no problem with your own fucking redbashing, but opportunistically using this shallow patina of anti-sectarianism when it comes to Your Guys is apparently not below you.
Hey, "no sectarianism" is your rule, not ours. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy where the rules are easily bent by just arbitrary relabeling the other side. In truth, you never believed in "no sectarianism". You only use it to enforce groupthink.
In any case, your whole argument above fails since you generalized against our whole instance.
Lmao as if we don't argue with eachother on everything here
Yeah lmao what a dumbass, there is at least 1 struggle session going at all times, this bozo is all like:
"MUH GROUPTHINK IS WHEN THERE IS NO TRANSPHOBIA ON HECCKIN NARWHAL REDDIT CLONE!!"
All this self-victimizing when it would be so much easier to just ban a blatant chauvinist, but it's more important to you to own teh sectarian tankies than it is to actually administer your instance according to any set of leftist principles.
All this self-aggrandizement when it would be so much easier to just not generalize based on uncharitable interpretations, but it's more important to you to own teh liberals than it is to actually administer you community according to your own rules.
"Ableism and smuglord attitude is bad" is sectarianism?
"That whole instance is full of fake leftists" is not sectarianism?
Maybe host real leftists then
"It's not sectarianism, when we declare them not real leftists"? Ok then
the "I'm blocking you" at the end is simply
Oh I didn't realize we were all the same person. I stand corrected.
I definitely think so. But there will be an argument over what constitutes revolutionary anarchism vs what constitutes the poisoned internet variant that calls itself anarchism but somehow manages to align itself with the US state department on nearly every single issue. I suspect there would be some disagreement over what you are, although I personally see a revleft anarchist with a lot of things still "in motion" so to speak. Like I mentioned in my below comment it's very obvious that anarchists as a whole have radically changed their opinions of previous propaganda after seeing palestine. This widespread collective change in attitude isn't going to stop here it's going to continue to develop with further events in the coming years, we are seeing a fledgling movement not a matured or experienced one.
Point being that the revleft anarchists here hate the nato-anarchists with every fiber of their being so the decision of what is and is not sectarianism when that becomes questionable can be difficult.
disclaimer: not a mod, personal opinion
Rule 3 does not protect neoliberalism, social darwinism, ableism, or other forms of chauvinism. It doesn't protect redditor smugness and debate pervertry. That's what is being discussed here. That's what is in OP's post. And when it comes to other users from your instance, we regularly need to ban them for transphobia, homophobia and imperialism apologia. And you act like a fucking lib defending his racist uncle about this.
The state's carceral system already does it for him.