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There is no such thing as "innate womanness," but obviously very few cis women put effort into appearing female. That is simply how their bodies and mannerisms will be viewed by others by in their default state. It's correct to say that most cis women have to put effort into appearances, but the vast majority of those that don't will still be seen as female 99% of the time. You're trying to convince her that there's an equivalency between this and what she experiences when there's not. Cis women don't put effort into "being girls," which is what her comment was about.
She said that her sisters still effortlessly pass as women after waking up, which is obviously correct, and someone said this was "a couple steps away from doing phrenology," which is absolutely absurd. It's not a fair comparison at all, and she was at least more correct to recognize this than to think that she's seen the same way as her sisters
You dodged the question, though - I'm interested in what you see as the essential woman-ness of her sisters that she lacks.
The difference is if my sisters don’t put effort into their hair, don’t do make up, throw on a pair of baggy clothes and don’t shave the little amount of facial hair on their lip they have enough of the other traits we deem “female” that no one is gonna think they are a dude.
I don’t understand why this is controversial? I’m not an idiot, I know intersex people exist, I understand some woman have some traits more associated with the other gender.
None of that changes what I said.
Right, so like... you have more facial hair than them? That's the innate difference?
Like what else would make people think you are a dude but not your sisters?
My body, my face, my voice.
Well, you can change your voice... but wait, your body? So this is truly you blasting your dysphoria at people aggressively?
You gotta realise that there are cis women with faces or bodies much like yours though, surely.
I don’t know if we can have a conversation if you can’t admit that the vast majority of cis women have a majority of traits people associate with females. They don’t have to have literally all of them, but they all do (for the most part) have enough that they aren’t gonna look like men if they slack on a beauty regiment.
Uh, sure I can. Less facial hair, generally wider hips, longer hair, shorter arms? These are associated as "female" whether or not they actually are.
What's the thresshold of "enough female traits"?
I’m not gonna scientifically quantify it and play your stupid game where because I can’t down to the exact percentage I am wrong.
We both know what I am talking about we both know what I mean. For trans woman the balance of traits is different and often leaning in the other direction so every little thing you can do to alter that matters in a way it just doesn’t to cis woman.
Right, so do you see where people draw the phrenology comparison? Your own rules for the game, here. You specified.
Um this is far from being a universal truth. Like on average, sure, maybe amab people are gonna have more masc traits since they've been on testosterone... but that is what estrogen is for. It's pretty good ag feminising.
I know "what you mean and are talking about" insofar as that you are dysphoric and not getting gendered correctly, but not so much "this is cope" "you are delusional" "a woman looks like a woman no matter what". You have been saying some incorrect and shitty stuff, at other people, where this could have been a spoilered vent instead or something.
I’m done with you
Okay, I hope you feel better soon
Thank you
absolutely
cw: some self-loathing and maybe internalized transphobia depending on your viewpoint
Honestly, I do often wish I had just been born differently and didn't have to go through so much effort just to feel like myself. I'm glad there are so many people here who love being trans, but while I don't feel any shame about it and it's definitely part of my identity, I don't think I could ever say I prefer living this way. I don't know if that's how you feel, but I wanted to get it out there, because while the positivity here is mostly a good thing, I feel like it gets to be too much sometimes
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